Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x04 - "Absolute Candor"

[Bad Thoughts]

If they wanted this to reflect on Trump and Brexit, a Trump like President would have helped. Most people resigning from the Trump administration are not accused of "hubris".

I disagree with both of these statements. The current American government has not only ignored and downplayed humanitarian emergencies, it has created at least one. The officials who have resigned have been repeatedly criticized for their silence, not actively exposing the decisions and actions that caused their resignations. Picard might reflect very well the current state of politics.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

But doesn't that imply that the concept of the Federation itself is untenable? I mean why now and not at any other point in Federation history? Fallout of the Dominion war? Some other factor?

I think the Federation almost coming to an end multiple times in the past 30 plus years was a bit of a wake up call. Starfleet weren't ready for the Borg, they weren't ready for the Dominion, they weren't ready for a synthetic revolt. Starfleet and by extension the Federation had been complacent and that complacency has resulted in a lot of death. It would be understandable that the Federation would become hawkish, isolationist and resistant to aiding a people who have actively plotted to destroy the Federation since it's inception.

 

[Tarek71]

I disagree with both of these statements. The current American government has not only ignored and downplayed humanitarian emergencies, it has created at least one. The officials who have resigned have been repeatedly criticized for their silence, not actively exposing the decisions and actions that caused their resignations. Picard might reflect very well the current state of politics.

Those sorts of criticisms though are even harsher for those who do NOT resign. Staying on in that regime would look worse on you than quitting would, whether you were outspoken after quitting or not. Some of course have been outspoken afterwards, others have not. But no one accuses those who leave of hubris for having resigned.

If you fail in your behind the scenes efforts against a policy, you have limited options. Go along with it, or you can leave. If you go to the press, you are out anyway, no matter if you are a civilian govt minister or a military officer. So you might as well resign. You're career is done either way.

I say a Trump like President since that would be a better reflection of our times and it must have been the Federation Govt that made these controversial decisions. Strict limits on refugees, halting rescue and resettlement, banning synths. I think only DS9, when they did their own arc about a Starfleet plot, ever showed the President more than once. Not sure why that is.

 

[Tarek71]

I particularly think Trumps penchant for interfering in Military justice should be in there. Pardoning or ordering reinstated people who have credibly committed war crimes. How Romulan refugees live. Living under spartan conditions. Orphans in cages. I think the difficulty of getting enough Romulans rescued before the supernova might have led to lots of children being put by parents on to limited rescue ship space. Thus a major Romulan orphan problem.

Lots of opportunities for the Show to highlight these issues. Hopefully they do more with that.

 

[Hythlodeus]

It's hard for me to see this as a Trump/US analogy, when the analogy to the Syrian refugee crisis and the reaction of the EU is so dominating.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Those sorts of criticisms though are even harsher for those who do NOT resign. Staying on in that regime would look worse on you than quitting would, whether you were outspoken after quitting or not. Some of course have been outspoken afterwards, others have not. But no one accuses those who leave of hubris for having resigned.

If you fail in your behind the scenes efforts against a policy, you have limited options. Go along with it, or you can leave. If you go to the press, you are out anyway, no matter if you are a civilian govt minister or a military officer. So you might as well resign. You're career is done either way.

I say a Trump like President since that would be a better reflection of our times and it must have been the Federation Govt that made these controversial decisions. Strict limits on refugees, halting rescue and resettlement, banning synths. I think only DS9, when they did their own arc about a Starfleet plot, ever showed the President more than once. Not sure why that is.

Without explicit permission, I won't speak of the real-life resignations further.

On the other count, not all contemporary political systems feature the same balance of democratic input, regional representation and executive power. The British government more directly represents the lower house of Parliament, but it lacks regional balance in the upper house. Subsequently, the Northern Ireland situation was poorly addressed and it looks as if the plebescite triggers in the Good Friday agreement may happen, reversing almost two decades of rapprochement. On the other hand, Germany has far greater federalism than the US, making the Laender partners in government to some extent, having essentially influence over the administration of policy. With so many differences, the nature of Federation governance would need to be vague in order to be broadly applicable.

 

[Tarek71]

It does seem like they are not going to go further into that. The show is about Picard and they have chosen a particular way of getting him off the couch. His connection to Data, his "daughters", the Zhat Vash, Maddox, etc. I do not expect them to introduce a President character or cover that aspect of it. Maybe in a Short Trek. If at all. That just is not the way they decided to do this.

 

[Spot261]

Sooo...lets not risk old friends! But Raffi and Romulan kid....yeah he can risk them. If Romulan kid gets killed....thats not like Worf dying! Picard actually gives a F about Worf. It won't be like someone he CARES about dying. That would actually bother him.

Totally NOT a dick move.

Ok, how many of those people did he ask to go along without offering them something in return?

 

[Spot261]

I particularly think Trumps penchant for interfering in Military justice should be in there. Pardoning or ordering reinstated people who have credibly committed war crimes. How Romulan refugees live. Living under spartan conditions. Orphans in cages. I think the difficulty of getting enough Romulans rescued before the supernova might have led to lots of children being put by parents on to limited rescue ship space. Thus a major Romulan orphan problem.

Lots of opportunities for the Show to highlight these issues. Hopefully they do more with that.

Possibly, but how much of your own bias is informing the assumption that the Federation operates according to the American system? For that matter, what makes you think it need even serve as an allegory for the US?

 

[Tarek71]

It's hard for me to see this as a Trump/US analogy, when the analogy to the Syrian refugee crisis and the reaction of the EU is so dominating.

I think Trump, Brexit, the Border crisis, the Wall, the Syrian-Afghan refugee crisis are all in the mix. I particularly like the idea what with a guarantee that several hundred million more Romulans can be saved by the Federation joining the over worked Romulan Fleet in the evacuation, Romulan parents were more willing to put their kids on to the rescue ships without them. That allowed more kids to be saved, with the hope that they would rejoin them later. Then, Federation pulls out. 100s of millions dont get saved and now a major orphan situation was made even worse.

 

[BillJ]

...Clancy still wasnt budging an inch from the stances that he had resigned over.

Clancy is still beholden to the Federation and its government. Much like Morrow and the Genesis Planet, it wasn't up to her to upend Federation policy on synthetic life just because Picard barged into her office.

 

[BillJ]

Possibly, but how much of your own bias is informing the assumption that the Federation operates according to the American system? For that matter, what makes you think it need even serve as an allegory for the US?

American show made primarily by Americans for the last 50+ years.

 

[Tarek71]

Possibly, but how much of your own bias is informing the assumption that the Federation operates according to the American system? For that matter, what makes you think it need even serve as an allegory for the US?

The people making the show said that. They wanted it to reflect on these times. Trump, Brexit, the refugee crisis, etc. The Federation is not the American system. It is not the EU either. Nor the UN. But if you want it to reflect the issues of our times, there are alot of ways for them to do that, no matter what system of govt they say the Federation has.

 

[Tarek71]

Clancy is still beholden to the Federation and its government. Much like Morrow and the Genesis Planet, it wasn't up to her to upend Federation policy on synthetic life just because Picard barged into her office.

I agree.

 

[Tarek71]

Ok, how many of those people did he ask to go along without offering them something in return?

Ok. Let me use this as an opportunity to clarify this:

I just didnt like the way they wrote it. I have no problem with him not asking TNG people if there is a good reason not to. Maybe he is thinking back to "All good things.."

"I did ask them once and I got Crushers ship destroyed and 3 Enterprises "destroyed". (Although, wibbly wobbly timey wimey, they were not actually destroyed). He wont go that route again. It was ok to ask Starfleet for a ship since this appears to be a serious situation, even a national security threat, and thats what Starfleet ships and officers do.

He IS allowed to care more about his TNG colleagues. Or maybe they all have families and kids and Raffi doesnt. Asking the nuns is ok because warriors being bound to a cause is what they do anyway. If not bound to my cause, they would just end up working for some other cause, so why not?

But they didnt say all that. They had some lazy dumb lines. But let me say, since I think others here misunderstand....I am just saying I think they could have framed and explained it better. Not that their arent reasons to do what he has done. Anyone who disagrees is free to disagree.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I particularly think Trumps penchant for interfering in Military justice should be in there. Pardoning or ordering reinstated people who have credibly committed war crimes. How Romulan refugees live. Living under spartan conditions. Orphans in cages. I think the difficulty of getting enough Romulans rescued before the supernova might have led to lots of children being put by parents on to limited rescue ship space. Thus a major Romulan orphan problem.

Lots of opportunities for the Show to highlight these issues. Hopefully they do more with that.

There are certainly a broad range of issues that the producers could address. However, they do need to pick their battles, and a better statement will always be one that can address both the contemporary world and the future.

Moreover, the direction that Stewart and Chabon and the others have taken would seem to address the broadest range of global social problems: the loss of empathy on a mass scale. I've seen this theme emerging in a lot of political discourse, and it touches on a lot of specific political decisions over the last few years.

 

[Alan Roi]

But they didnt say all that. They had some lazy dumb lines. But let me say, since I think others here misunderstand....I am just saying I think they could have framed and explained it better. Not that their arent reasons to do what he has done. Anyone who disagrees is free to disagree.

We get it that you are obsessing over why Picard didn't call up a whole lot of people he hasn't worked with for 25 years or more to help him out. But 'They' don't have to frame or explain anything. All they need to do is tell the story they are telling. When Picard finds himself in a conversation which requires him to spell it out, sure, maybe he will. But so far that hasn't happened and it may never happen, and it doesn't matter until it actually does because it has nothing to do with the story that's being told and the writers obviously don't think it matters, so maybe it doesn't. Not to mention that you are taking a line he tells a particular person out of context because you clearly want this show to be a TNG reunion show and feel you aren't getting enough reasons given to you why it isn't.

 

[Tarek71]

We get it that you are obsessing over why Picard didn't call up a whole lot of people he hasn't worked with for 25 years or more to help him out. But 'They' don't have to frame or explain anything. All they need to do is tell the story they are telling. When Picard finds himself in a conversation which requires him to spell it out, sure. But so far that hasn't happened and it may never happen, and it doesn't matter until it actually does.

They DO frame and explain why he doesnt ask the TNG characters. He does address it. Directly when asked. And I criticized how they decided to do that. What's said to him, the reasons given, etc. that I will not rehash here. But it was not "obsessing" about anything. It was a critique of narrative choices.

 

[Alan Roi]

They DO frame and explain why he doesnt ask the TNG characters. He does address it. Directly when asked. And I criticized how they decided to do that. What's said to him, the reasons given, etc. that I will not rehash here. But it was not "obsessing" about anything. It was a critique of narrative choices.

They don't explain anything. Its something Picard says after being asked a question. He could just as easily be lying about his motives for not contacting any of them and just saying something that will shut up the person asking him. You insist lines are dumb and lazy because you want lines that spell out everything to you what Picard absolute motives are. But that's not all dialogue is used for. I would posit that in that case it could have been used more to contextualize a relationship rather than tell the whole truth. Pronouncing something dumb and lazy is a perfect way to block yourself from looking at what you're seeing from a different perspective. It a piece of dialogue isn't giving you what you demand it should have, maybe it was never intended to in the first place.

 

[The Old Mixer]

For the record, I'm cool with the current drift into politics because it's remaining focused on how the show is or should be reflecting them. So long as it doesn't become about arguing real-world politics.

But continuing to dredge up Tarek's prior arguments about why Picard didn't call the TNG crew is, like, so two days ago. Let's all just leave them there and move on, shall we?