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Bad world building of Enterprise

Part of the difficulty is TOS make things seem like this were so primative that alot of things weren't possible. But in 2019 we are more advanced then TOS would make things be.
 
So basically it was a good concept that was badly executed, let down by bad writing, bland miscast characters and dreadful world building.

I agree with everything except the miscasting. For the most part, they had a good cast. I think the main person they miscast was Scott Bakula (and that's coming from someone who loved him in Quantum Leap). The main problem character-wise wasn't the actors; it was the generic nature of the characters themselves. Archer was a generic American everyman, Trip was a generic US Southerner, Malcolm was a generic Brit, T'Pol was a generic Vulcan, Hoshi was a generic Asian, Travis was a generic 'token black guy,' and Phlox was a generic 'somewhat goofy alien crewmember #2' (aka Neelix).

As for the 'world-building,' yes, as you mention, there was little to none of that. However, that was more UPN's fault than anything. They wanted a new show immediately after Voyager ended, and they didn't care what it was about. They just wanted something NOW. The prequel idea was Berman's (most likely influenced by the Star Wars prequels, and that he just couldn't think of anything better), but there was very little time to flesh the idea out. Berman wanted the first season of the show to take place on Earth so he and Braga could have some time to figure out what direction to take the show, but UPN nixed that too. So we ended up getting a prequel set 200 years before Voyager but looking and feeling essentially just like that show that had just ended, right down to the hot female in a catsuit. And then UPN didn't like the idea of a prequel, so they made Berman come up with the Temporal Cold War nonsense that B&B didn't even want to do but were essentially forced to, and it showed.

As for my opinion of the concept (the birth of the Federation), I think it was a flawed concept from the start. Why? Because Star Trek had been in existence for 35 years at the time, and every fan would have had their own preconceived notion of how the Federation formed, and no series showing that would ever live up to their expectations, especially a show whose producers didn't even bother to do any research about the show their show was supposed to be a prequel to.
 
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We get a fully formed and realised Starfleet with a clear purpose and the same ethos and ideals as we see in the 23rd and 24th centuries, despite basically just being created and only having a few ships at their disposal. There's no learning curve. Enterprise is a super ship that forms the Federation all by itself within the space of a few years. The political situation of the Alpha Quadrant at this time isn't really established, despite the fact the tyrannical Klingon and Romulan empires would have been the major powers during this era. We never get a sense what their influence is.

A primitive Starfleet with limited capabilities reacts to the Klingons just like they did in the 24th century. You might imagine discovering the existence of a huge interstellar empire controlled by an aggressive alien species who could easily invade Earth would lead to a massive ship building effort to defend Earth and its interests. Better writing could have shown the Klingon Empire to be a dangerous bullying galactic super power that motivates Starfleet to create alliances (that eventually becomes the Federation) in order to counter this threat. Instead it was over a Romulan drone.

So basically it was a good concept that was badly executed, let down by bad writing, bland miscast characters and dreadful world building.

I think it could have been improved but Earth's development makes sense if you view it from the right way. This isn't our universe.
Developmentally:
This universe had DY-100 ships capable of interstellar flight taking off before the turn of the Millenium. It had the benefit of certain technological advancements in materials and computing delivered from the future. It had whatever advancements the augments had brought along with it during the Eugenics Wars.

World War 3 was an incredible setback, but it was not a technological setback, though it caused many societal changes.

The pivotal moment is the Zephram Cochrane flight and subsequent Vulcan involvement, as well as the knowledge Sloane gained about alien threats. Human nature did not change overnight. Earth clearly starts expanding as rapidly as it can as soon as it knows the local neighborhood is occupied. It has to. That kind of expansion while the world is still recovering (building things like the Conestoga, Friendship One, the Valiant, the XCV-330, etc) only makes sense from the point of view that United Earth was on uncertain footing at home. taking the high ground and using the ECS to establish interstellar presences gives it a de-facto hegemony over any other remaining political forces on earth. That's who the Vulcans are going to give the goodies to.

Earth people would have known from their own history that a significantly superior technological culture invariably harms the lesser unless it struggles hard for parity and independence. Sovall remarked that his people were disturbed at how rapidly Earth was advancing. Far faster than they had, even when they tried to hold Earth back.

The period we first see Archer and his crew is only about two generations from Sloane (who i think is ultimately the more important of the two, but that's a side topic) and Cochrane, but in that time they've settled several interstellar colonies, started terraforming Mars, have vast shipyards in space, have conquered most of Earth's most pressing problems and (depending on how you view TAS) have defeated another interstellar power, the Kzin, possibly 3 times.

They're not quite bumbling boldly into a universe they do not comprehend. They just had certain important information withheld by the Vulcan High Command.
 
Look at the ship construction of Enterprise NX-01 and compare it to Enterprise 1701. One was made in the 1960's and one in the early 2000's, so they look different on TV. Easy to argue the 1701 was much more advanced.

You can kind of see what they were going for in In A Mirror Darkly with the NX class and TOS-era Constitution class right next to each other. The Constitution class looks simpler, but in a way that reflects a certain level of comfort with the technology. A bit like putting a modern smartphone and an older flip phone side by side. The flip phone looks more sophisticated, while the smartphone just looks like a black slab of glass.

Also, I thought it was disappointing how they backed out of Malcolm being gay. One of Gene Roddenberry's greatest regrets is that it took him a while to come around on LGBT+ issues, and when he finally did come around he felt like he didn't do enough to push for LGBT+ representation in Star Trek. It would have been a good opportunity to start making things right.
 
When Ent came out, it felt to me that TPTB really wanted to keep making Voy but needed a new ratings hook, so they just set it in the 22nd century so they could say "see, it's all different". But the STORIES weren't different, and the show needed some level of comparability with the 24th century shows for those stories to work (ie; the tech, situations, aliens, etc). That's why they lost me and countless other fans during the first two years. By the time they really started to make an effort to differentiate the show (series 3 and 4) too much of the fanbase had abandoned it. I finally caught up with series 3 and 4 several years later and was really wowed and filled with regret that I hadn't stayed with the show and supported it. It DID actually get better and form its own identity.
 
I finally caught up with series 3 and 4 several years later and was really wowed and filled with regret that I hadn't stayed with the show and supported it. It DID actually get better and form its own identity.

But you had supported it by choosing not to watch a passable spin-off, thereby signaling that as far as you were concerned, the Berman/Braga era of Star Trek needed to wind down. The most supportive thing a fan can do is remain alert to quality television and ask for the best possible Star Trek. I, too, had stopped watching after the pilot and only saw the show more recently on Blu-ray and Netflix, since by that time it had become easily accessible worldwide. While Season 3 definitely showed promise, it became clear in Season 4 that ENT had devolved into TOS-based fan service with a TNG kitchen sink to boot.
 
But you had supported it by choosing not to watch a passable spin-off, thereby signaling that as far as you were concerned, the Berman/Braga era of Star Trek needed to wind down. The most supportive thing a fan can do is remain alert to quality television and ask for the best possible Star Trek. I, too, had stopped watching after the pilot and only saw the show more recently on Blu-ray and Netflix, since by that time it had become easily accessible worldwide. While Season 3 definitely showed promise, it became clear in Season 4 that ENT had devolved into TOS-based fan service with a TNG kitchen sink to boot.
I'm another person that gave up on ENT pretty early only to give it another try on netflix years later. I still think Season 1 is terrible, season 2 is only slightly less terrible because of a couple of good episodes. Season 3 and 4 are very good. The show runners needed to step away from Enterprise from moment one and hand it over to someone else, but that wouldn't have guaranteed its success. With the demands from the network on the show, I'm not sure anyone could have given them what the network wanted, what fans wanted and what the audience (that aren't the fans) wanted.

It was a good premise, but when it was bad it felt like Voyager with less lighting. I actually think they did go the riskier route of having Earth have close allies and enemies, and essentially have earth find out it's been living in a bad neighborhood all these years. My problem was that they found all these close by species right on our doorstep that we never ever saw before and so far have never seen again.

For the time the FX were good. The show still looks good, now. Some trek sets end up looking dated. After awhile they get beyond it and become classic or they (TNG bridge) still look like the lobby of a mid-80's Radisson Hotel. I think the NX will age pretty well.

It had generally good casting, but Archer was not a compelling captain.

T'pol was there as Catsuit 2.0, and so Blalock was not utilized as an actor properly. Merryweather was seat-filler (in a cast that wasn't that big). Writers didn't seem to know what to do with Sato either, at least in the beginning.

Reed could haven been a truly outstanding character and Keating was certainly up for it, but again, for some reason, they were risk adverse.

Tucker and Phlox kept the show interesting during its dullest moments.
 
I still think Season 1 is terrible, season 2 is only slightly less terrible because of a couple of good episodes. Season 3 and 4 are very good.
That's odd, because I have precisely the opposite opinion. In particular, was ready for the Xindi War arc to be done with before 3 was halfway over.

And as to the first two seasons being like Voyager, I liked Voyager better than I liked DS9 (especially after the Dominion War arc got started).
 
I don't get why they even had Starfleet back then. I think one way for ENT to stand out more would've been to not have Starfleet. I liked the idea that was in the scrapped Star Trek: The Beginning of there being a United Earth Stellar Navy. I think it would've been nice to see that transition from the Stellar Navy to Starfleet.

Also I wouldn't have included the Klingons. I think the Andorians would've worked for the warrior race that becomes allies by the end of the series. And the Orion Syndicate could've filled the role of the Suliban. (I didn't have a problem with the Suliban, or Xindi for that matter, but it would've been nice to some of the TOS species get more screen time and development). I think those things would've helped ENT stand out, while still laying the groundwork for TOS.
 
I don't get why they even had Starfleet back then. I think one way for ENT to stand out more would've been to not have Starfleet. I liked the idea that was in the scrapped Star Trek: The Beginning of there being a United Earth Stellar Navy. I think it would've been nice to see that transition from the Stellar Navy to Starfleet.

Also I wouldn't have included the Klingons. I think the Andorians would've worked for the warrior race that becomes allies by the end of the series. And the Orion Syndicate could've filled the role of the Suliban. (I didn't have a problem with the Suliban, or Xindi for that matter, but it would've been nice to some of the TOS species get more screen time and development). I think those things would've helped ENT stand out, while still laying the groundwork for TOS.
Starfleet being around at that time was established in TOS, TNG, and DS9(and probably VOY, but I don't remember a specific reference off hand.

The idea was to set the show a hundred years after the movie "First Contact," and have it be a sequel to the film, and follow up on those events, and a hundred years before TOS. It's already been established who those founding races of the Federation were, so the series focuses on Vulcans and Andorians, with a few Klingon interactions(also referenced in other series), and Romulans, who have been referenced as having been around. Kirk is supposed to be out in uncharted space, and most of the aliens he comes in contact with are new, unkown species who don't have spaceships, and Starfleet has never been to their worlds.

ENT shouldn't be about TOS anymore than TNG is.
 
One of Gene Roddenberry's greatest regrets is that it took him a while to come around on LGBT+ issues
Gene never came around, he never tried. Despite talking a good game before the fans, having a clearly drawn gay main character had to wait a quarter century passed his death.
My problem was that they found all these close by species right on our doorstep that we never ever saw before and so far have never seen again.
Which I perferred over dragging out the same fully explored species over and over.
I don't get why they even had Starfleet back then. I think one way for ENT to stand out more would've been to not have Starfleet.
This would have been a interesting move, Starfleet being something decades in the future. But that wouldn't have been the safe way to go.
Starfleet being around at that time was established in TOS, TNG, and DS9 (and probably VOY, but I don't remember a specific reference off hand.
No. From TOS, Starfleet might have been only a few decades old. There were mentions of ships from years before the series, but not specifically said to have been Starfleet. Voyager did show a uncrewed probe from shortly after Cochrane's first warp flight with a delta insignia and UESPA.
 
I would have made a well-developed little corner of the Quadrant. There'd be the Andorians, Tellarites, Vulcans, and Klingons as the local superpowers with the Romulans being the effective "border" of Known Space as they kill everyone who crosses into their territory. Everyone would be engaged in Modern Day 21st century realpolitic while plucky little Earth starts trying to make things better.
 
Starfleet being around at that time was established in TOS, TNG, and DS9(and probably VOY, but I don't remember a specific reference off hand.

It was conjectured and fan theory that Starfleet was founded with the Federation in 2161. This is what the Star Trek Chronology proposed in the mid-90s, and is partially based on the canonical founding date of Starfleet Academy. Enterprise invented the idea of a Starfleet that predated the Federation.

TOS was pretty clear that the Klingon interactions with Starfleet date to about 50 years at most prior to the series. So, they were sort of a retconned presence, as they shouldn't have been a known quantity for 60+ years. Discovery does alleviate this, somewhat, by making the Klingons go all isolationist for awhile.
 
No. From TOS, Starfleet might have been only a few decades old. There were mentions of ships from years before the series, but not specifically said to have been Starfleet. Voyager did show a uncrewed probe from shortly after Cochrane's first warp flight with a delta insignia and UESPA.

It was conjectured and fan theory that Starfleet was founded with the Federation in 2161. This is what the Star Trek Chronology proposed in the mid-90s, and is partially based on the canonical founding date of Starfleet Academy. Enterprise invented the idea of a Starfleet that predated the Federation.

TOS was pretty clear that the Klingon interactions with Starfleet date to about 50 years at most prior to the series. So, they were sort of a retconned presence, as they shouldn't have been a known quantity for 60+ years. Discovery does alleviate this, somewhat, by making the Klingons go all isolationist for awhile.
Enterprise has more than just TOS to take into account. For instance, Bashir says(in Inquisition) regarding the founding of Starfleet "...but that was 200 years ago!"

However, TOS does have a reference in Balance of Terror. When they talk about about a century earlier, Stiles says "There was Captain Stiles in the Space Service then."

As Tenacity mentioned, Voyager has a reference to the UESPA existing 300 years earlier, and TOS establishes(and ENT affirms) that Starfleet is part of it.

I'm sure there are other references to Starfleet's and/or the Federation's history, but without Enterprise, it can be established that:

-Sometime between the 2030s(One Small Step) and the 2060s(Friendship One)the various space agencies combined, or were absorbed into the UESPA.

-Sometime between the 2060s(Friendship One, First Contact) and the 2150s(Balance of Terror), and absolutely no later than the 2170s(Inquisition), Starfleet was formed.

According to ENT, Starfleet had to have been formed sometime around the 2130s. This fits with what was known. Also, in Enterprise Starfleet was a human organization started on Earth, and willing to accept nonhumans(T'Pol) into their ranks. In TOS, Starfleet is still a human organization based in Earth, and willing to accept nonhumans into their ranks.
 
I see the relationship between UESPA/Starfleet as being like NASA/USAF.

Maybe Starfleet was called the United Earth Space Service/Force but the personnel called it the Star Fleet and that caught on.

Anyways, I'm working on an ENT retelling without the temporal cold war. Maybe with the Xindi (because I find them fascinating) or maybe not. I haven't decided yet. But I'm definitely setting it before the Enterprise launch. I'd like to explore Earth of that era: politically, socially, economically.
 
It’s entirely possible that there was a United Earth Stellar Navy during the time of ENT. It just never got discussed.

Starfleet & UESPA were under the exploration wing of United Earth.

UESN & MACO were under the military wing of United Earth.

Earth Cargo Authority and Earth Cargo Service were under the trade wing of United Earth.

United Earth Diplomatic Corps. were under the diplomacy wing of United Earth.

ENT never really focused on the military aspects much (or the trade or diplomacy aspects either) as it was based from the perspective of explorers. A show based around one of the other three wings, or even all four at the same time, would have a different take and perhaps be more effective at world building for that time period in general. I’d imagine that those characters would not be as generic as those on ENT either.
 
It matters not at the moment the absolute dates when various Star Trek shows happened. What matters in this discussion is the relative dates of events.

According to "Balance of Terror":



Spock clearly says that the war with the Romulans was "a century" earlier, though how precise that century was is uncertain. Spock also says that the war was fought "By our standards today, with primitive atomic weapons and in primitive space vessels" clearly stating that there had been much technological progress taking many decades since the Romulan War was fought.



Kirk also says that the Romulan War was "a whole century" earlier. Lt. Stiles doesn't say that he served in the Romulan War or knew people who served in that war personally, he says that Several members of his family served in the Romulan War and were killed and that has been remembered as family history in his family.

So the absolute dates of the Romulan War and of "Balance of Terror" are not established in TOS, but the relative dates are indicated. Maybe the Romulan War happens in 1899 and "Balance of Terror" happens in 1999, or maybe the Romulan War happens in 2899 and "Balance of Terror" happens in 2995, or maybe the Romulan War happens in 3590 and "Balance of Terror" happens in 3699. But it is clear that "Balance of Terror" happens approximately one century after the Romulan War.

I note that Earth and the Romulans had the use of sub-space radio by the end of the Romulan War since the treaty was negotiated via sub-space radio. And that was about a century before TOS.

In "A Piece of the Action":



So the Horizon apparently visited Sigma Iota about a century earlier, but before Earth had subspace radio. So the voyage of the Horizon was apparently at approximately the same time as the Romulan War, but sometime before Earth acquired subspace radio and thus sometime before the end of the Romulan War.

Since Enterprise happens a few years before the Romulan War, one might suppose that the voyage of the Horizon happened in the few years between Enterprise and the end of the Romulan War.

In "Strange New World" the third episode of the first season of Enterprise:



So subspace radio is already in use in the first season of Enterprise and if the first life pod in the story had subspace radio, for at least 63 years before then. And subspace radio is used in many other episodes of Enterprise.

So Enterprise should be sometime after the Horizon left on its voyage that reached Sigma Iota, a voyage where the Horizon reached a position a hundred light years beyond the position of whoever received its radio signal about Sigma Iota.

In "Two Days and Two Nights", on the planet Risa:



But Archer is very wrong. Sometime before subspace radio was introduced and thus before Enterprise, an Earth ship, the Horizon, reached a point so distant from Earth that even a century of expansion later, the nearest Earth outpost or ship was 100 light years closer to Earth than the point reached by the Earth ship Horizon.

Now that is a major contradiction between Enterprise and TOS!
I bow down to your knowledge. I haven't watched "Balance of Terror" for quite awhile and didn't remember that.
 
It matters not at the moment the absolute dates when various Star Trek shows happened. What matters in this discussion is the relative dates of events.

According to "Balance of Terror":



Spock clearly says that the war with the Romulans was "a century" earlier, though how precise that century was is uncertain. Spock also says that the war was fought "By our standards today, with primitive atomic weapons and in primitive space vessels" clearly stating that there had been much technological progress taking many decades since the Romulan War was fought.



Kirk also says that the Romulan War was "a whole century" earlier. Lt. Stiles doesn't say that he served in the Romulan War or knew people who served in that war personally, he says that Several members of his family served in the Romulan War and were killed and that has been remembered as family history in his family.

So the absolute dates of the Romulan War and of "Balance of Terror" are not established in TOS, but the relative dates are indicated. Maybe the Romulan War happens in 1899 and "Balance of Terror" happens in 1999, or maybe the Romulan War happens in 2899 and "Balance of Terror" happens in 2995, or maybe the Romulan War happens in 3590 and "Balance of Terror" happens in 3699. But it is clear that "Balance of Terror" happens approximately one century after the Romulan War.

I note that Earth and the Romulans had the use of sub-space radio by the end of the Romulan War since the treaty was negotiated via sub-space radio. And that was about a century before TOS.

In "A Piece of the Action":



So the Horizon apparently visited Sigma Iota about a century earlier, but before Earth had subspace radio. So the voyage of the Horizon was apparently at approximately the same time as the Romulan War, but sometime before Earth acquired subspace radio and thus sometime before the end of the Romulan War.

Since Enterprise happens a few years before the Romulan War, one might suppose that the voyage of the Horizon happened in the few years between Enterprise and the end of the Romulan War.

In "Strange New World" the third episode of the first season of Enterprise:



So subspace radio is already in use in the first season of Enterprise and if the first life pod in the story had subspace radio, for at least 63 years before then. And subspace radio is used in many other episodes of Enterprise.

So Enterprise should be sometime after the Horizon left on its voyage that reached Sigma Iota, a voyage where the Horizon reached a position a hundred light years beyond the position of whoever received its radio signal about Sigma Iota.

In "Two Days and Two Nights", on the planet Risa:



But Archer is very wrong. Sometime before subspace radio was introduced and thus before Enterprise, an Earth ship, the Horizon, reached a point so distant from Earth that even a century of expansion later, the nearest Earth outpost or ship was 100 light years closer to Earth than the point reached by the Earth ship Horizon.

Now that is a major contradiction between Enterprise and TOS!


I just rationalize it this way: TOS had an original history that was quite different - then the Enterprise E went back and unintentionally created butterflies that totally changed the path forward after first contact with the Vulcans. They thought they set things right, but due to slight alterations, the early history and formation of the Federation had a different path, that contradicts its original TOS history, which is even more contaminated by the finding of the Borg Drone during the show ENT, and the Temporal Cold War was an attempt to realign the timeline into some semblence of its original self - which is why by the time Picard returned, he didn't notice much of a difference, but the new 23rd century is an extention of the rewritten 22nd century, basically the new narrative from FC -> Ent -> DSC -> (a version of TNG) -> Pic didn't exist originally during TOS.
 
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