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Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x04 - "Absolute Candor"

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Captain Killy said:
Absolutely no one has said that. Starfleet’s decision to not help the Romulans is on Starfleet and Starfleet (And the Federation) will have to own up to that. But this series isn’t about Starfleet, it’s about Picard. And Picard gave up. It’s just that simple. That’s the point you seem to be missing here. He not only walked away from Starfleet, he walked away from Raffi, he walked away from Elnor, he walked away from the Romulans. And his walking away...hurt people. His walking away had consequences. And he is responsible for that.

You keep saying everyone knew the situation and quite frankly, you don’t know that. We haven’t been shown that on screen. I think it’s a safe bet that the Klingons wouldn’t have been willing to help the Romulans, but OTOH, Jean-Luc Picard is no ordinary man in the eyes of the Empire. He was K’mpec’s Aribiter of Succession. He was the former commanding officer of the Ambassador to the Klingon High Council. Picard’s voice held weight within the Empire. Did he go to Worf or Martok and at least try. The day Starfleet accepted his resignation did he go straight to the Federation President? Did he go to the Federation News Service and do an interview? No. Knowing that Raffi got discharged because of him, did he ever check up on her? Did he go to the CnC and advocate for her? Did he return to Vashti to explain what had happened? Did he ever check up on Elnor? Again no he did not. This is not about Picard failing to persuade the Federation to rescue the Romulans. This is not about him failing to rescue the Romulans. This is all about him no longer trying, about giving up, about Picard waking away from the people who cared about him and those who needed him. You say he didn’t have any responsibility for those people...of course he did.
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Resigning from Starfleet was the right thing. As a military officer there is a point beyond which you cannot take the argument. The answer was no. That's it. Even if he didnt threaten to resign, it was the right thing to do. He tried, he staked his career on this, and they are just not going to do it. Either accept that decision and continue on with your career in uniform, or quit. Quitting was right.

This was a policy decision the President and Federation Council would have made, not just Admirals. The military doesnt rule the Federation. This was known to everyone already. Planets are threatening are threatening to secede, this is a major issue of public policy. He feels bad, and thinks he should have maintained some of the personal relationships he had with others. I never had any problem with him feeling bad about it. I get that. We all do.
 
I wonder if the guy with the weapon in Rios face from next weeks trailer, is somehow connected with the BOP?

Maybe the Thug/Warlord has gone after them for wrecking his ship?
 
DaveyNY said:
Apparently, the Federation and the New Romulan Govt. have both pulled out of the Vashti quadrant (perhaps in The Neutral Zone) and now a Warlord/Pirate is using his supped up BOP to control the area and has been for some time.

They said the characters name (though I can't remember it at the moment) but we never get to see him/her.
I'm hoping it is an Orion.
:techman:
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I hope it s a Kelpian.
 
Alan Roi said:
Yet even your argument to claim that Picard never did anything wrong, ever, is something that the character now vehemently disagrees with every turn of the way. Walking away from Starfleet at the worst possible time for millions who he promised aid to, the right thing to do. For who? Not lifting a finger to help anyone else since, when he would have in a moment before, the right thing to do. For who? Letting his loyal Number #1 have her career destroyed which is implied to be at least partly due to her loyalty to him and not lifting a finger to return that loyalty. The right thing to do. For who? Completely abandoning a young boy who he knew absolutely idolized him, and would have taken little more effort on his part than gifting the kid with a copy of The Three Musketeers, the right thing to do. For who?
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Leaving Starfleet was right. He did all he could do there. As a military officer, you can argue as strenuously as you want to the Chiefs and the President, but if they still shoot it down, you don't any options left while still in uniform. "You have received your orders, request denied. You're dismissed." That's it. Once that happens, the argument is over. You can either accept the decision and resume whatever duties that they assign to you, or you can resign your commission if this is a decision you simply cannot accept.

He can feel bad about Raffi, not being there for her or for the boy. I don't dispute that. He strongly opposed the synth ban and the decision to end the rescue. He wants to set things right. I get that. No dispute here.
 
Phily B said:
I'm really enjoying Rios, I really liked his casting in the first place and he hasn't disappointed.

Hope we explore more of his background and it's not "Section 31" again.
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I'm not seeing anything to indicate that the writers are intending to use Section-31 in PICARD.
 
Phily B said:
I'm really enjoying Rios, I really liked his casting in the first place and he hasn't disappointed.

Hope we explore more of his background and it's not "Section 31" again.
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I think his whiskey, cigar, chunk of metal in the shoulder is no big deal entrance was beyond silly. But that's not the characters fault. Since then, he's been fine. The Scooby Gang is mostly together now. Hopefully the pace picks up.
 
Tarek71 said:
I think his whiskey, cigar, chunk of metal in the shoulder is no big deal entrance was beyond silly. But that's not the characters fault. Since then, he's been fine. The Scooby Gang is mostly together now. Hopefully the pace picks up.
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For a character that stereotypically "tough", he was surprisingly easygoing on the change of course to Vashti. Far more patient than I would have thought with Jurati's small talk too.
 
Tarek71 said:
Leaving Starfleet was right. He did all he could do there. As a military officer, you can argue as strenuously as you want to the Chiefs and the President, but if they still shoot it down, you don't any options left while still in uniform. "You have received your orders, request denied. You're dismissed." That's it. Once that happens, the argument is over. You can either accept the decision and resume whatever duties that they assign to you, or you can resign your commission if this is a decision you simply cannot accept.
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And yet Picard has disobeyed orders in the past numerous times and gotten away with it, such as in Conspiracy, I, Borg and in Star Trek: Insurrection. Seems to me, his status in Starfleet has always offered him wiggle room with the top brass whenever he needed it before. Yet you insist that can never have been the case. The only way that your argument can be supported is to ignore everything that came before in TNG and insist that Starfleet is an absolutely rigid organization from top to bottom when copious evidence argues against your assertion.
 
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Alan Roi said:
And yet Picard has disobeyed orders in the past numerous times and gotten away with it, such as in Conspiracy, I, Borg and in Star Trek: Insurrection. Seems to me, his status in Starfleet has always offered him wiggle room with the top brass whenever he needed it before. Yet you insist that can never have been the case. The only way that your argument can be supported is to ignore everything that came before TNG and insist that Starfleet is an absolutely rigid organization from top to bottom when copious evidence argues against your assertion.
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There is some "wiggle room" here and there and then there is this situation. He should have done what here? Try ordering the Fleet to Romulan space to resume the rescue operation in spite of their orders? Sure, he said the hell with watching the Neutral Zone while the Borg attack Earth, in First Contact. That's a different situation than here. Even in real militarys, there can be wiggle room for taking the initiative. But there are limits to that. In this case, I dont see what more he could have done within Starfleet.
 
Yistaan said:
For a character that stereotypically "tough", he was surprisingly easygoing on the change of course to Vashti. Far more patient than I would have thought with Jurati's small talk too.
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Yes, he was. Picard occasionally forgets that he is not the Captain, and Rios has taken this in stride. It is Picard though too, so might have alot of respect for him as people did for Kirk in his time.
 
Tarek71 said:
There is some "wiggle room" here and there and then there is this situation. He should have done what here? Try ordering the Fleet to Romulan space to resume the rescue operation in spite of their orders? Sure, he said the hell with watching the Neutral Zone while the Borg attack Earth, in First Contact. That's a different situation than here. Even in real militarys, there can be wiggle room for taking the initiative. But there are limits to that. In this case, I dont see what more he could have done within Starfleet.
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He and Raffi would have gone on a quest for the mythical Star Forge that can create entire fleets effortlessly...

Oh wait, wrong franchise.
 
Nerys Myk said:
She looks more like Legolas than Elnor. ;)
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Heh ... I think perhaps you may have gotten your IP's crossed on that one.

EITRI AT THE STAR FORGE​
J8oA4OW.jpg
 
Tarek71 said:
There is some "wiggle room" here and there and then there is this situation. He should have done what here? Try ordering the Fleet to Romulan space to resume the rescue operation in spite of their orders? Sure, he said the hell with watching the Neutral Zone while the Borg attack Earth, in First Contact. That's a different situation than here. Even in real militarys, there can be wiggle room for taking the initiative. But there are limits to that. In this case, I dont see what more he could have done within Starfleet.
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The US, the UK and Canada have, historically had 3 approaches to the grand scifi plot of Man vs. the System. US writers have typically preferred: Man fights the system and wins. UK writers have typically preferred: Man fights the system and loses. Little attention has been paid to the Canadian preference, which is, Man fights the system, realizes he isn't going to win, swallows his pride and collaborates with the system in the hopes of improving it in the long term if he can't in the short term.

Picard, as I see it, and has been demonstrated, was unable to swallow his pride and see that any Romulans he could figure out how to save within the system or without would have been the moral victory vs. what he instead chose to do.

For instance, my mother worked for the Canadian Military. She was treated badly. She could have quit but she didn't. She worked within the system to change things for the better.
 
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