Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x03 - "The End is the Beginning"

[DaveyNY]

We're told repeatedly of Dahj and Soji's ability to assess information. Dahj found Picard so easily. Soji knew info about the Borg and the Romulan lady she wasn't supposed to know.

These 2 would be a serious threat to whoever sabotaged the synths.

I say Oh isn't a deep cover Romulan agent. She's actually a Starfleet officer who's a Vulcan extremist (not unlike Valeris). She sabotaged the synths to destroy Romulus, the Vulcans' hated enemy.

Her mission was accomplished. However, somehow she found out about Dahj and Soji. With their abilities, they would easily find out she's responsible. So she has to kill them.

Oh approaches the Zhat Vash. She blames Romulus' destruction on the rogue synths, and tells them they have a shared goal in destroying Dahj and Soji. Thus the Romulan hater ends up ordering Romulans around.

Anyone find holes in this theory?

Except the explicit goal with Dahj was to capture her alive.
Commodore Oh wouldn't be pizzed with Rizzo otherwise.

And Narek is wooing Soji to get information from her, why bother if they all just want her dead?

I think they are trying to figure out a way to USE her without setting off her abilities.

 

[Alan Roi]

Except it looks like the Zhat Vash is responsible for the deaths of millions of Romulans, as well as 90,000 Federation citizens.

I do not think it's fair to blame all Romulans for what the Zhat Vash is doing, just like it be unfair to blame all Muslims for what ISIS has done.

It's not a question of all Romulans being good or bad, its a matter of some Romulans being good and others being bad. Clearly Picard's Romulan's caretakers are good people, I do not think anyone would say its fair to punish them for the Zhat Vash's sins.

The Zhat Vash's seeming willingness to kill millions of Romulans for their ideology makes them seem exceptionally cruel and clearly their own countrymen are not safe from that cruelty.

As it looks right now, Zhat Vash appears to likely be only one of the parties involved in ensuring this particular combination of tragedies turned out to be as vast as it became.

 

[Yistaan]

Except the explicit goal with Dahj was to capture her alive.
Commodore Oh wouldn't be pizzed with Rizzo otherwise.

Hmm, I forgot that. That still does indicate to me that Oh is not Zhat Vash, and that their goals are not entirely aligned.

 

[DaveyNY]

As it looks right now, Zhat Vash appears to likely be only one of the parties involved in ensuring this particular combination of tragedies turned out to be as vast as it became.

We haven't really heard the Romulan side of the 'incident' yet.
We're all just speculating about who actually hacked the Synth's.
That the Romulan's are involved in some manner is obvious, but whether or not they actually were the perpetrators is still anybody's guess.

 

[Terok Nor]

Trump has said:

"All Mexicans are rapists..."

"We don't need anyone from those s**thole countries"

etc. The only time he says "oh, okay...maybe they aren't all bad..." is when a group really calls him on it, and he feels it's affecting his image outside his hardcore base - but as soon as he gets back in 'Rally' mode he goes back to and doubles down on the above rhetoric.

And given he's expanding his travel ban to blanketly include more countries - his actions say all you need to know about how he REALLY feels on the subject.

(And that's all I'll say as this ain't "The Neutral Zone area of the board...but please Trump has been ANYTHING BUT inclusive in the majority of his actions or comments.)

Fact check please before you spread lies.

https://www.politifact.com/factchec...ine-falsely-says-trump-said-all-mexicans-are/

 

[Yistaan]

We haven't really heard the Romulan side of the 'incident' yet.
We're all just speculating about who actually hacked the Synth's.
That the Romulan's are involved in some manner is obvious, but whether or not they actually were the perpetrators is still anybody's guess.

I'm beginning to think they didn't become aggressors until the Zhat Vash started hunting Dahj and Soji. As Picard stated, they have no reason to destroy their own rescue fleet. I don't think they hacked the synths.

Also, keep in mind the parallels Patrick Stewart is aiming for in this show. The true enemy isn't some "other" race we have to build a wall against. Its our (and the Federation's) own darker nature. I'm more convinced now Oh acted without Zhat Vash assistance in the synth sabotage.

Also, Oh may want Dahj alive to find a way to Maddox. Killing Dahj and Soji is no good if Maddox just makes more androids.

 

[DaveyNY]

Fact check please before you spread lies.

https://www.politifact.com/factchec...ine-falsely-says-trump-said-all-mexicans-are/

UUmmmnnn...
Your LINK essentially agrees with what Noname Given posted.


What it does say is that Kain exaggerated, not that our President didn't say those things.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I tend to agree with those who lean towards Commodore Oh not being a Romulan agent, but a Starfleet officer who isn't afraid to do whatever it takes and by any means necessary to protect the Federation, even if it means doing things that would be considered criminal (or even treasonous) within the Federation if they were brought to light. To me, she's cut from the same cloth as Admiral Marcus from Star Trek Into Darkness, and it's not unreasonable to think that he wasn't the only Starfleet officer willing to go to extremes.

 

[Yistaan]

What people say and do are different things. This goes back to DS9 and earlier. The Federation says they are against genocide. Then they look the other way with Section 31 doing such.

 

[Reyman]

Too many accents from the British Isles for my liking, but otherwise another solid episode.

 

[Alan Roi]

What people say and do are different things. This goes back to DS9 and earlier. The Federation says they are against genocide. Then they look the other way with Section 31 doing such.

Star Fleet has a general order that allows them to commit genocide, supposedly, if the Federation is threatened after all.

 

[Tarek71]

Trump has said:

"All Mexicans are rapists..."

"We don't need anyone from those s**thole countries"

etc. The only time he says "oh, okay...maybe they aren't all bad..." is when a group really calls him on it, and he feels it's affecting his image outside his hardcore base - but as soon as he gets back in 'Rally' mode he goes back to and doubles down on the above rhetoric.

And given he's expanding his travel ban to blanketly include more countries - his actions say all you need to know about how he REALLY feels on the subject.

(And that's all I'll say as this ain't "The Neutral Zone area of the board...but please Trump has been ANYTHING BUT inclusive in the majority of his actions or comments.)

I am saying that insofar as this is a commentary on these matters, they have not done a good job. They have shown state terrorism, infiltration of Starfleet, and a growing threat. One that appears alot more serious than Al Qaeda ever was.

Other than Ebony and Ivory lyrics and Hallmark card sentiments that few really contest, what is the commentary supposed to be? Trump did not say all Mexicans are rapists. Travel bans are not unusual, including under Democratic presidents. But this is not about the merits of Trump. This is about a paper thin, 2 dimensional moral commentary, and not done well at that.

 

[Alan Roi]

Too many accents from the British Isles for my liking, but otherwise another solid episode.

Next week: Scouse, Geordie and Manx! Plus a Klingon in a cameo speaking with an Edinburgh accent.

 

[Terok Nor]

UUmmmnnn...
Your LINK essentially agrees with what Noname Given posted.

No it does not. It blatantly states Trump did not say all Mexicans are rapists. Just like he never said white supremacists are good people. The only person claiming he said "shit hole countries" is a Democrat who later told others despite no one else hearing Trump say it during a Daca meeting. I'm iffy on the travel ban myself but one of the countries on the initial list had already been removed because they stepped up their security. I don't see anything wrong with protecting US citizens, including its immigrants, from threats.

 

[cooleddie74]

The greatest Trek actor accent of all time remains this.

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[Tarek71]

Our President says a lot of things that he obviously doesn't really mean.
His ACTIONS speak volumes, his words constantly fall flat.

I am not a supporter. Only to say that if it is just a matter of clap trap, banal declarations of "there is good and bad in everyone/every group", well that doesnt seem like meaningful commentary. Trump says things like that all the time. That's because they are easy, breezy to say. You can put them on a bumper sticker. What they have shown is a threat alot more serious than what we are facing and which makes the commentary fall dead flat and preachy. It doesn't really engage with the topic in a serious, weighty, nuanced way that shows the serious problems involved.

 

[rfmcdpei]

Should such a thing happen to our Sun I will be happy to leave you behind with a warm coat, bar heater and a torch then, safe in the knowledge that the Earth and Humanity will be perfectly fine and dandy in our underground cities, all because theoretical physics said so.

I certainly never said a warm cost and a torch would be enough.

More to the point, if you are going to decide that the character who had the best idea as to what to happen to his plan is unreliable for no given reason, and if you decide the real-world physics which point to his solution having a chance of fulfilling his goal is irrelevant ...

The chances of such a colossal chaotic event playing out in such an orderly and above all considerate way does not make any sense at all.

Indeed. You would note that Spock's desperate plan did not work because the star went supernova prematurely.

If you are going to decide that the story means nothing and that you may as well tell your own story, go ahead. Creativity is a good thing. Confusing that creativity for an accurate representation of what actually happened, now, is another thing entirely.

 

[DaveyNY]

No it does not. It blatantly states Trump did not say all Mexicans are rapists. Just like he never said white supremacists are good people. The only person claiming he said "shit hole countries" is a Democrat who later told others despite no one else hearing Trump say it during a Daca meeting. I'm iffy on the travel ban myself but one of the countries on the initial list had already been removed because they stepped up their security. I don't see anything wrong with protecting US citizens, including its immigrants, from threats.

Heh ... semantics ....
it's a great way to justify something when one doesn't wish to face the awful truth.

C'est La Vie
Time to move on.

 

[Terok Nor]

Heh ... semantics ....
it's a great way to justify something when one doesn't wish to face the awful truth.

C'est La Vie
Time to move on.

Facts aren't semantics. Believe what you want but don't expect me to swallow lies. Good day.

 

[oberth]

Um, the same reason a particular French Starship Captain (and now a retired Admiral for 14 years) would.

the romulan language is irrelevant in the 24th century?