Spoilers Supergirl - Season 5

Kirk Prime · Jan 29, 2020

The Realist said:
Still, it could hardly have been more flaccid than Kara/Mon-El was, or Kara/William promises to be.

(Personally, I've always thought that Kara/Oliver might have generated some heat, but I don't think that was ever even on anybody's radar, and it certainly won't be happening now.)

Hmmm... you're not wrong about the other pairings. Could it be that Melissa Benoist just doesn't do romance well? Or do they just not WRITE romance well for her?

CorporalClegg said:
So really, poor shipping is really a franchise problem and not just limited to SG. Even Barry and Iris is kind of dull. I mean it's "Yay, it's Barry and Iris."

Another interesting point. I never really thought much of it, but there isn't much major chemistry there either. Hopefully it will work better with Superman and Lois.

Not all chemistry has to be romantic. Buddy relationships can carry a show when the actors play off each other.

The Realist · Jan 29, 2020

I doubt there are many things Benoist can't play. I think it's more that Kara's relationships are presented very blandly, without any emotional or physical heat. TBH, I think it's part of a tendency to desexualize Kara in general, in a well-intentioned effort to avoid exploiting her and to make her a good role model for young fans. But it does tend to suck any passion or excitement out of her romantic pairings, leaving Benoist with nothing to play except dewy-eyed chaste longing opposite safely neutered himbos.

Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME · Jan 29, 2020

Although I managed to watch Back from the Future - part 1 a few hours after its releasing, I waited to be able to watch it with french subtitles to be certain to not miss anything and even with them, I didn't get some sequences but it has nothing to do with the language barrier but the scene itself, in particular regarding Nia.. ! :shrug:

)
Anyway, this episode was pretty great largely thanks to :

- the return of Winn Schott (Jeremy Jordan was at the top of her game in performing a double role which were the opposite of each other: a machiavelic Toyman Winn and a wiser but still very likeable Winn from the future -> a big guy, married and daddy
- the compagny Luthors operating to fight Leviathan while pursuing designs less admissible. That's being said, to see Lex and Lena working together is pretty fascinating: many things oppose them but together they can move mountains just by working their little gray cells! If Lena didn't still have a semblance of morale and conscience (even if it is very buried at the moment!), imagine all the good or all the evil that they could do and few people could oppose them, even Supergirl and her Superfriends reunited!
Andrea is desesperate to regain the lost friendship of Lena that the latter can play with the Catco's CEO with a certain facility (she has done the same with Kara when she has requested some services which were borderline criminal activities!). The "good" side of her reconciliation with Andrea is that even if she uses her, Lena won't be totally alone in terms of companionship as seeing as her supposed friends (Nia, Jonn, Winn, Alex -> she only went to see Lena in the 1st episode of Crisis to ask help to build a portal, Kelly -> who could have proposed her help, she who is a sort of psychologist*).
As for Kara, it seems to me that even if she stands on the alert in case Lena needs help, she dropped Lena somewhat, perhaps in despondency after all of her attempts at reconciliation have failed. The best evidence for me is she continues to have fun with her Superfriends regularly and now she is getting ready to date a potential boyfriend in person of William Dey!
-> my only fear is that Lena was pushed so deeply in the dark side, showing a behavior bordering on detestable that the character, who was until the beginning of S5, one of fans favourites, be
irrevocably destroyed that it will be difficult for the viewers to appreciate her again after she comes back from the darkness. It is sad even if in the same time, this s5 offers to Katie McGrath, a wonderful occasion to show what she is able to do at acting's level.
- Brainy: I am so used to see Brainy "on battery", that seeing him suddenly different (and suffering in silent): calm, secret, intriguing. It almost makes me uncomfortable!
I don't know if now that he revelaed the truth to Winn, this latter will repeat it to Kara and Cie. In this case, Brainy could continue to "work" with Lex as a spy for the Supers. Will he take advantage of this situation to get closer to Lena and help her to see more clearly and act together when the time comes => frankly,
it won't take too many to fight and win over Lex!

Next to that :

- Kara remains true to herself : smiling, perky, caring and adorable. Well, Kara Danvers from the beginning of the show even if find her more serious since s3.
- Kelly Olsen: seriously, she is a wallflower. It is just to show us how Alex is happy, great! :rolleyes:

- Jonn: his performer, David Harewood directing his first episode, it wasn't surprising and I bet that when Melissa Benoist will direct hers, it will be the same. Besides, it seems that the 5x16 will focus on Alex as Super Alex.
- Nia: her story as Nia Nole is ok but as Dreamer, have a lot more trouble to get involved. In fact, The more we progresss in the season, the more I can't stand her. God sake, that he character be developped!

2 questions:

- do you think that Alex reveal Kara's true identity to Kelly or that James did it before she and Kelly were engaged in a romance?Because I noted that when they are in the same room, Kara acts just as Kara Danvers and not as Supergirl Kara.
- do you think that Kara will reveal her true identity to William when they will begin to date and if yes, how long time? Indeed, Kara waited 3 years to confirm herself to Lena that she was Supergirl, after Lex made the big revelation before dying under the pretext that she wanted to protect her and be treated as only Kara so, telling the truth to a guy that she knows from what 3 or 6 months would be a new slap for Lena. In the same time, if Kara and William are in middle of a cuddles or more and that Kara is called, it could be funny to see Kara trying to explain her imminent absence to William... :whistle:

Kirk Prime said:
Hmmm... you're not wrong about the other pairings. Could it be that Melissa Benoist just doesn't do romance well? Or do they just not WRITE romance well for her?

Good question!

TREK_GOD_1 · Jan 29, 2020

Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME said:
I miss the happy K/L moments from the previous seasons but in the same time, I enjoy very much the tension in their relationship since the beginning of this 5th season

That was no "pals forever" connection, since Lena always placed her illegal/unethical schemes above her alleged friendships (in this season, after SG revealed her ID, Lena wasted no time trying to steal from the Fortress of Solitude). Moreover, the fact Lena despised Supergirl (and her interference/ major ideological differences is something (if played realistically) would always boil in her mind.

Anyway, even if don't expect that their relationship be the same than before, I hope that they will manage to
forgive each other's actions and move forward with more sincerity, empathy and understanding.

This season had SG making one excuse after another for Lena's corrupt acts. On the other side, Lena repeatedly says she knows who SG and everyone else really is (regarding what sees as their two-faced character), so to pursue a person who has reached such an oft-repeated conclusion is a textbook example of a dysfunctional relationship.

The Realist · Jan 29, 2020

^ No mention of eugenics?

GRADE: C.

TREK_GOD_1 · Jan 29, 2020

The Realist said:
^ No mention of eugenics?

GRADE: C.

Stale reply. Lacking any sort of imagination.

GRADE: F.

The Realist · Jan 29, 2020

JanewayRulz! · Feb 1, 2020

TREK_GOD_1 said:
.... Moreover, the fact Lena despised Supergirl (and her interference/ major ideological differences is something (if played realistically) would always boil in her mind.
.

Keep digging, even when all the evidence points another way..

An inspiration, a mentor, a friend.

Lena trying in her own small way to be more like Supergirl... not something one would expect if LL despised SG

Why does Kara keep trying with Lena?

Its because Kara loves her, and Kara knows that her own series of missteps (having James break into his lover's lab, lying about her own secret identity for years) created this rift with Miss Luthor.

And if you believe in ancient Chinese curses, Supergirl has been responsible for Lena ever since she saved Lena's life 4 years ago. She decided then to nurture Lena's humanity and trust and ultimately she failed her friend in the worst way, by living down to Lex's worst expectations.

But Superheroes wouldn't be heroes if they didn't face insurmountable odds and try to correct their own mistakes.

And Paragons of hope would not be "paragons" if believing in hope was easy.

TREK_GOD_1 · Feb 2, 2020

JanewayRulz! said:
Keep digging, even when all the evidence points another way..

Posting a couple of scenes does not alter the course of every episode where this has been a theme or part of the main plot. This is the reason Kara bristled every time Lena would make some critical comment about Supergirl's interference or assumption of being right.

And if you believe in ancient Chinese curses, Supergirl has been responsible for Lena ever since she saved Lena's life 4 years ago. She decided then to nurture Lena's humanity and trust and ultimately she failed her friend in the worst way, by living down to Lex's worst expectations.

Nope. Supergirl is not position to even understand humanity as she constantly makes excuses or Lena when her own sister, and that character--I believe his name was James--either called Lena out on her corruption, or as you note, spied on her activities. Why? Because eugenics/human experimentation are not the traits of one with good at their core. There is no "well, deep down, they are good" for anyone who believes in what she does, as it was not to be found in real world parallels throughout history.

JanewayRulz! · Feb 2, 2020

That guy who's name you "can't" remember might not agree with her research into making humans "super", but he still was actively trying to make their relationship work despite that research. It was Lena that put an end to it when he "judged her" not for the research but rather for being willing to work with the government.

It actually is hard for James to judge her for her research (courtesy of Lex's instigation) since it ended up saving his life and his ability to walk.

Lex had to push Lena to finish the harunel serum by shooting James since her initial trials on one human scared her away from continuing her research.

The reason I post show clips is to remind us of certain things like Lena telling Lex in that last one, "I'm not risking human lives on an experimental untested drug."

The next clip reminds us that despite what she told James, Lena doesn't trust the government with her research.

Over the years, however, Lena has come to trust her "friends" more than her government...

....and yet her friends lie to her as much as she lies to them.

JanewayRulz! · Feb 2, 2020

Lena is damaged.

Her mother died when she was extremely young, she grew up under the toxic influence of Lillian Luthor and her childhood hero became a maniacal villain intent on ruling the world.

Lets not forget the best friend from boarding school who betrayed her...

...and betrayed Lena's lifelong quest to follow her mother's quest.

Then when she commits that 2nd original sin, fratricide, ostensibly to save "the world" and more importantly her friends, she discovers they've all "lied" to her. And that childhood hero of hers? Even as he died he rubbed her nose in it. In the unforgivable sin of being a fool.

She is damaged, brilliant, and alone.

A frightening combination.

She needs saving from herself as much as Sam needed saving from Reign.

If only there was someone, a hero, up to the job.

If only there was someone who could inspire her to save herself.

If only there was someone who looked beyond the obvious, who looked for the potential.

If only.

TREK_GOD_1 · Feb 2, 2020

JanewayRulz! said:
That guy who's name you "can't" remember might not agree with her research into making humans "super", but he still was actively trying to make their relationship work despite that research.

Which made whats-his-face either a fool, or the writers proved that they had no idea how to write a realistic relationship, and certainly not from the perspective an American black man would have about the idea/practice of any form of eugenics. His behavior (trying to maintain a relationship with her) was completely unrealistic

It was Lena that put an end to it when he "judged her" not for the research but rather for being willing to work with the government.

Sooo, he thought working with the government is bad, but the heart of the matter: eugenics/human experimentation is not? Yeah, the showrunners' moronic agenda was loud and clear there, which was utterly unrealistic under those circumstances.

It actually is hard for James to judge her for her research (courtesy of Lex's instigation) since it ended up saving his life and his ability to walk.

Unethical practices are still unethical even if you once benefitted from it. Of course, if the character was ever written realistically, he would have stood on even a shred of a moral platform and rejected what she did to him, rather than the showrunners desperately trying to make Lena appear heroic, only for her to go back to her corrupt ways, like murdering her own brother (and yes, she did think she was killing him), and continuing her research.

….and this season, before Eve's consent, she had already experimented on her. She took Eve's right of existence / choosing her own path away from her (again, there's parallels in real life 20th century America, Canada and Europe of the same rights-tossing programs), all for her sick agenda of "improving" humans.

....and yet her friends lie to her as much as she lies to them.

Let's take a couple of big points about the two main characters on the show: Kara is an alien who doubles as a superhero. Alex works for a government agency that is not the local bar where just anyone can come in / be exposed to their work, lives, etc., unless they see fit to allow said exposure. Their lives and secrets are theirs to protect. Neither Kara or Alex was obligated to share that with her. Heck, early in season one, Alex was concerned about James knowing about the nature of her job. If Alex once felt it was not wise and/or safe for James to know what he did, how can anyone think Lena--a Luthor and one with her running record--is somehow so trustworthy that she must know their most personal information?

JD · Feb 5, 2020

Christopher said:
Well, yeah, but that logically means the only way to prevent it from happening for multiple generations is to have a solid taboo against it ingrained in the culture on a continuing basis from generation to generation. After all, ensuring the birth of future generations is traditionally the whole point of marriage, so what would happen to those future generations is an entirely logical consideration.

Maybe, but when the adoption occurs is probably a factor. If you'd grown up with someone as your adoptive sibling since infancy, the thought of attraction to them would probably be creepy. But in the case of both Barry/Iris and Steve/Jaime, the childhood crush already existed (albeit only one way in Barry's case) before they became adoptive or foster siblings. In Jaime's case, again, I'm pretty sure it was after Steve had already moved away from home, so they never lived together. In Barry & Iris's case, it was at age 11, so that's less than half their childhood spent living in the same house -- and though Barry came to think of Joe as his father, he still had a bond to his biological father. So they wouldn't really have thought of each other as siblings first or exclusively. That's why the unusual circumstance of their shared parentage didn't make their relationships feel incestuous to them.

And if it looks that way to anyone else, who cares? There is no actual incest occurring in these cases, nothing illegal or non-consensual is going on, so nobody else has any damn business to judge it wrong just because it reminds them of something worse.

I've never really been that bothered by Barry and Iris's realtionship, they were already older when Barry moved in, and they never seemed to really consider each other brother and sister, even if Joe did kind of become a second father figure for Barry.
As for the Supergirl episode, the biggest thing for me was getting to see Winn again. I always liked him, and I really liked what they did with him here. Tossing the Toy Man doppleganger into the mix was pretty fun to, and gave Jeremy Jordan a chance to give a different kind of performance.
I have to admit, I didn't even think of the issues with Nia having descendants until I came to the thread. I'm pretty sure if they want her to have kids they can always just come up with a sci-fi way for her to do it.
I'm glad we got the scene with Brainy's confession to Winn about how horrible he feels about working with Lex, it's nice to know that it is having an effect on him.

theenglish · Feb 5, 2020

This episode really made me miss Winn. It was nice to see him again, but his absence does leave an empty spot on the show's cast. Brainy was supposed to have taken over, but I just prefer Winn's character. Brainy's arc should have been much shorter lived.

Christopher · Feb 5, 2020

JD said:
I have to admit, I didn't even think of the issues with Nia having descendants until I came to the thread. I'm pretty sure if they want her to have kids they can always just come up with a sci-fi way for her to do it.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, there are real-life fertility preservation options for transgender people. Nia could've banked sperm before her reassignment surgery, and a surrogate mother could bear her child.

JD · Feb 5, 2020

Jeremy Jordan is going to be starting an eight week run playing Seymour in an off-Broadway production of Little Shop of Horros on March 11th.
Do we know how long he's going to be sticking around on Supergirl? I'm assuming they'll still be filming at that time.

Christopher · Feb 6, 2020

JD said:
Do we know how long he's going to be sticking around on Supergirl? I'm assuming they'll still be filming at that time.

I gather it's a 3-part arc.

Enterprise is Great · Feb 6, 2020

Yes, three episodes

JD · Feb 6, 2020

Ok. That's right, I forgot Sunday's was Back From the Future Part 1.

thribs · Feb 6, 2020

Not a fan of Lena. She’s outlived her usefulness.

Spoilers Supergirl - Season 5

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