Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x02 - "Maps and Legends"

[Gonzo]

A destabilized Federation might not seem like a good idea to Starfleet. And how might an alliance with the Romulans effect the alliance with the Klingons? Does maybe 14 planets leaving encourage another 50 planets to consider leaving? We don't know the political situation in the Federation over the couple decades since the Dominion War, but if Starfleet considers it fragile, then maybe it is.

Starfleet must have had a good reason but were not willing to share it with Picard, they may have found out about what really happened but dont dare speak of it.

Or it could boil down to certain members not wanting Romulans in the Federation, that is the way it was going, it still is to be honest but I cant see that being enough to leave so many of them to die.

I always thought a greater Federation with the Klingons and Romulans was pretty much a foregone conclusion faced with all the threats the rest of the galaxy could hold, the Dominion war was just a small taste of what is to come.

We havent seen any Remans yet, did any survive, are they the synths and reason that the Romulans left Vulcan.

 

[Timo]

Klingons are just a bunch of baddies who will eventually see, if not the error of their ways, then at least the wisdom of sticking with the humans. But the history between Romulans and Vulcans has been straining the existence of the Federation from day one, and so far has never been openly addressed. Perhaps now is the time for the pustule to be cut open? Clearly, some Vulcans would wish to get reunited with Romulans, and vice versa, while others would like nothing better than to have the other party erased from the face of the galaxy. And we in the audience still don't know for real why this would be, why the Romulans really left, what drives them apart or together, and how and why this secrecy about their identity could persist for a century of Vulcan UFP membership.

Picard may not be the obvious vehicle for uncovering the dirty Romulan secrets, having been the Klingon Man previously. Using him as a vehicle for artificial life issues comes more naturally, with his Data and Borg angles. But this is our and the writers' best chance to make something out of that ages-old Trek mystery, and I'm delighted they didn't need to invent an all-new hero to cover this.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DarthPipes]

After a strong pilot, Picard took a big step backwards with this episode.

Where to begin...there was some outright terrible acting by the guest cast here. The Admiral arguing with Picard was terrible and that whole conversation was cliched. If Picard didn't get along with this admiral, why go to her in the first place? More than fair to point out that after trashing Starfleet, he wasn't likely to get a ship in the first place.

More bad acting the Romulan commodore (I always liked this rank better) and Lt. Rizzo. Damn, that was terrible, with Romulan commodore practically twirling her mustache to her equally unsubtle conspirator. How do these two possibly stay hidden without Starfleet?

This episode had WAY too much exposition, starting with the scene in Dahj's apartment and ending the episode with a long, boring conversation between Rizzo and the Romulan scientist. This show seems to be throwing a ton of ideas out there and then explaining them to death. Not a good look for this show already.

Roddenberry's utopia was always unrealistic but now we have gone to another extreme with how the Federation is portrayed, including having synthetic slave workers. I did like the synths though.

This show is desperately trying to be edgy television. It reminds me of the pilot of BSG, where they just kept having random sex scenes in a desperate attempt to convince the audience how edgy they were. They settled down with that and worked it in a lot better after that initial episode but that's kind of what Picard is reminding me of.

Stewart is good as always and some of the new cast is too. I liked meeting someone he served with on the Stargazer.

I think this show will be fine going forward but the one-dimensional portrayal of the villain Romulans and Starfleet/The Federation (basically anyone who disagrees with Picard) is a definite source for concern. The Romulans on TOS were always a lot more interesting than this group.

 

[DEWLine]

14 species...controlling how many worlds scattered across how many star systems between them?

We don't know those numbers yet.

 

[Timo]

Nor do we quite know how decisionmaking works in the UFP. Perhaps among the 14 were some who were more equal than others.

Obviously still not a decisive majority, of course, or they would simply have voted "no" on the rescue mission between themselves.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[oberth]

I tried watching it, its supposed to be a comedy but I didnt find it very funny and the characters were just annoying.

I will stick to B99.

i second that - not funny at all

 

[Pindar]

I am not going to try to catch up with 80 pages for this episode.

For an episode that consisted of 40 minutes of exposition it was enjoyable.

The only real problem I have with this show is having to wait a week for the next episode.

I don't normally binge tv shows but I think Picard would benefit from it.

Very nice to see a Commodore again, is she evil, is she a Romulan agent.

I prefer to think she is running the Romulans agents in a double bluff just to keep eyes on what the Romulans are up to.

The Admiral did at least follow up on what Picard told her, she didn't totally dismiss what he had to say out of hand. I can see her point that he had a cheek asking for a ship after spending years bad mouthing Starfleet and doing it on the news.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

Ones that practiced forced child bonding and fights to the death for control of women. ...

You are committing the fallacy of false equivalents. Pre-arranged marriages does not equate to them being duplicitous evil schemers.

Arranged marriages are understandable. Maybe western civs don't care for it. May even be out-of-date in our day, however, it was an exotic element to flesh out Spock's Vulcan culture. To the degree that Vulcan women are "controlled" we actually don't know. T'Pring did have a voice and she exercised it. Didn't strike me that T'Pau was "controlled." On top of that it was depicted as something they are not necessarily proud of nor in control of themselves. A left over from their pre-logic days.

Although, as far back as his very first appearance, Sarek …

Simply more false equivalencies. Stoicism is part of Vulcan nature doesn't automatically equate to them be of dubious character, nor does being a "suspect" in a murder. For the record, Sarek was innocent and no prior acts of murder ever presented. Spock merely acknowledged it was possible as Sarek possessed the ability. He never said Sarek had the nature to do such a thing.

 

[BillJ]

He never said Sarek had the nature to do such a thing.

He also said he was a logical suspect, IIRC.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

He also said he was a logical suspect, IIRC.

That he was. Based on the circumstantial evidence and ability and lack of verified alibi. Not because of his nature as a Vulcan or character as a person.

Bill, I have no doubt you are the sweetest guy alive doesn't mean you can't be a suspect in something. Especially if someone went out of their way to try and frame you for it. Remember the killer purposely tried to make it look like Sarek had done it.

 

[Nerys Myk]

KIRK: How was he killed?
MCCOY: His neck was broken. By an expert.
KIRK: Explain.
MCCOY: Well, from the nature and location of the break, I'd say the killer knew exactly where to apply pressure to snap the neck instantly.
KIRK: Who aboard would have that knowledge?
SPOCK: Vulcans. On Vulcan, the method is called tal-shaya. It was considered a merciful form of execution in ancient times.
KIRK: Spock. A short time ago, I broke up an argument between Gav and your father.
SPOCK: Indeed, Captain? Interesting.
MCCOY: Interesting? Spock, do you realise that makes your father the most likely suspect?
SPOCK: Vulcans do not approve of violence.
KIRK: You're saying he couldn't have done it?
SPOCK: No, Captain. I'm merely saying it would be illogical to kill without reason.
KIRK: But if he had a reason, could he have done it?
SPOCK: If there were a reason, my father is quite capable of killing. Logically and efficiently.

 

[BillJ]

SPOCK: If there were a reason, my father is quite capable of killing. Logically and efficiently.

For shrinking violets, they sure are still a violent bunch. They are clearly still teaching each other to kill, logically and efficiently.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

… For an episode that consisted of 40 minutes of exposition it was enjoyable. The only real problem I have with this show is having to wait a week for the next episode. I don't normally binge tv shows but I think Picard would benefit from it.

Streaming services count two things: 1) New subscribers and 2) cancellations. CBS is afraid folks would just sign up and binge watch and then drop it. Make them wait and, if nothing else, hope they forget they are having the monthly fee taken from their account. Be surprised at how many do.

Very nice to see a Commodore again

Agreed.

... is she evil, is she a Romulan agent.

I originally thought she was a Romulan (despite seeing the IDIC in the foreground), but I guess she is, at least for now, a Vulcan … which is something I'm not thrilled with.

The Admiral did at least follow up on what Picard told her, she didn't totally dismiss what he had to say out of hand. I can see her point that he had a cheek asking for a ship after spending years bad mouthing Starfleet and doing it on the news.

True. The Admiral's POV, with regard to Picard, was very understandable given her position.

 

[SJGardner]

Vulcans being evil, manipulative or just plain condescending pricks isn't really just an Enterprise/nuTrek thing... didn't DS9 have a literal Vulcan serial killer in one episode? And while Captain Solok from the baseball episode wasn't exactly what you'd call duplicitous or manipulative, he was a condescending prick and he did have a really unhealthy fixation on having to prove humans, and specifically, one single human he met at the Academy decades ago, inferior at every single opportunity. Enterprise's Jerk!Vulcans couldn't exist without him.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I think "Image of Surak" is the only Vulcan who didn't have jerkish qualities.

 

[BillJ]

I think "Image of Surak" is the only Vulcan who didn't have jerkish qualities.

I always thought Tuvok came off fairly well across Voyager.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I always thought Tuvok came off fairly well across Voyager.

Well dealing with Neelix on a daily basis must have been a strain. There were a few times he looked like he was contemplating a logical and efficient way to kill the gopher.

 

[BillJ]

Well dealing with Neelix on a daily basis must have been a strain. There were a few times he looked like he was contemplating a logical and efficient way to kill the gopher.

I'm sure Surak himself would've approved.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

For shrinking violets, they sure are still a violent bunch. They are clearly still teaching each other to kill, logically and efficiently.

Employing another fallacy does not help your cause (just the opposite). No one ever said or implied Vulcans are shrinking violets. Tai Chi is a martial art that also has health and meditative aspects. Many martial arts practitioners in fact do not look it as training to kill even though it could impart that ability. There is also nothing against self defense.

 

[BillJ]

Employing another fallacy does not help your cause (just the opposite). No one ever said or implied Vulcans are shrinking violets. Tai Chi is a martial art that also has health and meditative aspects. Many martial arts practitioners in fact do not look it as training to kill even though it could impart that ability. There is also nothing against self defense.

I think you're taking the conversation a bit more seriously than the rest of us.