Spoilers Anti-Romulan Attitude
- Thread starter The Wormhole
- Start date
It should be pointed out that there were also Romulan dissidents, albeit a very small minority, who didn't care for the militant ways of the Empire and sought reunification with the Vulcans, an effort Ambassador Spock supported. Like his old Vulcan friend, Picard was willing to show compassion to the enemy when they were faced with certain annihilation.
As for the lingering animosity and mistrust, even B'Elanna Torres made mention that while she was growing up in a colony, many humans were still suspicious of her and her Klingon mother (not sure about her exact words). Now this was decades after the Khitomer Accords.
As for the lingering animosity and mistrust, even B'Elanna Torres made mention that while she was growing up in a colony, many humans were still suspicious of her and her Klingon mother (not sure about her exact words). Now this was decades after the Khitomer Accords.
Supposedly the Romulans left Vulcan because they felt the Logicians were cramping their style of passionate disagreement and dissent. Now free of Surakists, why would the Romulans give up their ways of internecine fighting? No doubt Romulus has always featured dozens of factions in deep disagreement - some would fight, some would be suppressed, and some would become this famed "offshoot". With the central star and the central government gone, the number of factions is only going to increase and make the game all the more interesting!
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
It's kind of disappointing that the relationship between the Romulans and the Federation didn't quite stick after the Dominion War "alliance" and the events of Nemesis. Hell, the death of the Romulan Senate seemed to be a logical "stepping stone" for things to possibly go the right way with whomever was brought in to replace the. I guess the Romulan "Designated Survivor" was just as much of an asshole.
No to bring out this often used horse but, well, yeah to bring it out but that was part of the "spirit of Trek" that even enemies could become allies. This very concept comes up a few times with the Romulans in TNG, notably in episodes like "The Enemy" or "Face of the Enemy" which suggested, along with "Unification" there was an underground of Romulans wanting things to go forward.
But, no, they're just "the bad guys" and always will be. I guess.
Except in this episode they're both the bad guys and the ones we're supposed to have some understanding for with the little house-mates with Picard and his wanting to save the Romulans? I mean, if the Romulan Top-Top Secret Organization is now embedded enough to cause this Mars destruction and to cause open attacks right in front of friggin' Starfleet shouldn't we be at home going to Picard: "You know, the Federation was kind of right to not want to help them."
The show should be doing the opposite by making the Romulans completely innocent in all of this and not doing anything sinister, which maybe they will and these Secret-Secret Agents are running kind of independently directed by this Vulcan/Romulan Commodore lady using the brother/sister.
There's plenty of other villains in the galaxy the show runners could have used or just plain made-up instead of going for the Romulan well. But I guess, there's just going with some level of familiarity paralleling present-day "enemies"/people we want to be allies with.
But, I mean, it's kind of like.... Wanting is to feel sorry for or agree with a character trying to help Islamic people and then the same show showing us them planning and carrying out 9/11.
No to bring out this often used horse but, well, yeah to bring it out but that was part of the "spirit of Trek" that even enemies could become allies. This very concept comes up a few times with the Romulans in TNG, notably in episodes like "The Enemy" or "Face of the Enemy" which suggested, along with "Unification" there was an underground of Romulans wanting things to go forward.
But, no, they're just "the bad guys" and always will be. I guess.
Except in this episode they're both the bad guys and the ones we're supposed to have some understanding for with the little house-mates with Picard and his wanting to save the Romulans? I mean, if the Romulan Top-Top Secret Organization is now embedded enough to cause this Mars destruction and to cause open attacks right in front of friggin' Starfleet shouldn't we be at home going to Picard: "You know, the Federation was kind of right to not want to help them."
The show should be doing the opposite by making the Romulans completely innocent in all of this and not doing anything sinister, which maybe they will and these Secret-Secret Agents are running kind of independently directed by this Vulcan/Romulan Commodore lady using the brother/sister.
There's plenty of other villains in the galaxy the show runners could have used or just plain made-up instead of going for the Romulan well. But I guess, there's just going with some level of familiarity paralleling present-day "enemies"/people we want to be allies with.
But, I mean, it's kind of like.... Wanting is to feel sorry for or agree with a character trying to help Islamic people and then the same show showing us them planning and carrying out 9/11.
That's rather stereotypical, isn't it? I mean, can't Romulans do both?
Sure they can, they were both all over the place in TNG. Well, in a handful of episodes and in Nemesis. But it's unusual to make a group of people in a story BOTH the villains and people we're supposed to have some sympathy for.
And while that can work in stories when we're supposed to see/understand that a group of people isn't one motive or culture that they can both be villains and friends here it just seems... Given the level of villainy they're responsible for between the Mars attack and the seeking out the Synths (of note our focus girl) it just seems strange for the show to want us to agree with Picard that they were "lives" deserving to be saved but while he's saying this we're shown they carried out this horrific attack that killed thousands.
And in the story so far of all the Romulans we've been introduce to so far only two have been likable/"good guys" and they're not going to be around much longer so for the rest of season we're going to be getting the typical Romulans who're scheming against the Federation. But, feel sorry for them!
I think that is a rather simplistic analysis.
So they're making the Romulans real people then. With different philosophies and agendas and opinions. One might say they are even making the Romulans realistic. Laris and Zhaban are there to give us a different perspective on Romulans, they were both tal shiar who defected and protect Picard. We're also going to have the young romulan Elnor showing up in a couple of episodes who apparently will see Picard as a father figure. At the same time you have some Romulans who want to maintain the status quo and remain antagonistic. Sounds like a real society to me!
Also where are you getting this idea that the Romulans were responsible for the attack on mars? It's never been stated who was responsible for the Synths going rogue.
You're making a lot of assumptions with terribly scant evidence.
Can't have a real society in Star Trek.
Well.. Only romulas was destroyed right? So there's the whole empire to make a new home world, he'll it's piss poor planing if romulas was the only world where romulsns lived!
O noos! A complex and multifaceted civilization, people and culture! How unstartrek.
Seriously? I am glad we are doing away with the one dimensional aliens and characters and going for a more realistic approach.
I think it's been upgraded to being a threat to several systems in the Empire.
The only thing we know is that Romulans have a grave mistrust of artificial intelligence, as Laris indicated in the second episode. But it's possible that Romulans like Commodore Oh, who presumably is a member of the hardliner Zhat Vash, used the Synthetics to attack Utopia Planitia. Kill two birds with one stone.
I did wonder if the Dominion War increased Romulan tensions after it was over. As Odo points out to Sisko in The Reckoning:
SISKO: The Romulans have forced the Dominion to retreat from the Benzite system.
ODO: That is good news. The question is, will the Romulans be willing to leave Benzar after the war is over? Once they capture territory, they very rarely give it up.
SISKO: Right now, we need to concentrate on beating the Dominion. We'll worry about the Romulans later.
SISKO: The Romulans have forced the Dominion to retreat from the Benzite system.
ODO: That is good news. The question is, will the Romulans be willing to leave Benzar after the war is over? Once they capture territory, they very rarely give it up.
SISKO: Right now, we need to concentrate on beating the Dominion. We'll worry about the Romulans later.
I think you mean downgraded to just a threat to several systems in the Empire. In it's original appearance, the supernova "threatened to destroy the galaxy"
Yes, science people wear blue/green; people that die or are in command wear red. Klingons are aggressive; Romulans are scheming traitors. Picard is wise and cites Shakespear.
Life was so good, when things were simple.
Ferengi have whips.
Well. A few did.
#BringBackWhips #DontJudgeMe
Well. A few did.
#BringBackWhips #DontJudgeMe
Also the Romulans actually invaded the Federation under Sela and attempted to annex Vulcan with a large occupation army. I wonder how popular Unification was on Vulcan after that event.
Romulans are not a Hive Mind like the Borg, there are good Romulans and bad Romulans, just like there are good and bad Americans, good and bad Muslims, etc. Generalization is applying the actions of some individuals to an entire group. If the Zhat Vash caused the Mars attack than they would be responsible for the deaths of millions of Romulans as well, which is similar to how most ISIS' victims are other Muslims.
Why would the Dominion War lead to a new peace between the Federation and the Romulans, that alliance was built on a lie and before it, the Romulans were happy to let the Federation get crushed by the Dominion.
In the Nemesis, the Romulan military was chomping at the bit to attack the Federation, why the events of that film lead to a new peace? Those military hardliners are still in power.
The Federation failed to save their world, why would the Romulans be all warm and fuzzy towards the Federation after that?
Saying peace between old enemies is easy is naive, it will take far more work than what we have seen so far.
