Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x02 - "Maps and Legends"

[eschaton]

I have to disagree with the people calling the opener filler. I think it's going to turn out to be important to see exactly what the synths were doing before and during the Mars attack.

It's better to show than tell. The problem is the writers already decided to pretty much tell us all of this in the first episode, so showing it in the second episode is somewhat redundant - minus the "eye glitch" thing which seems to suggest they were all hacked.

Similarly, the Zhat Vash infodump at the beginning of the episode was fairly quickly rendered partially useless because later scenes in the episode conveyed the basics (that a group of Romulans who hate synths are behind all of this) much more effectively.

 

[Amaris]

So this super-secret Romulan Secret Police force decide to kidnap someone by beaming into her apartment, cause a bunch of ruckus, kill people with knives and start combating hand-to-hand or firing weapons out in open spaces in the daytime right in front of Starfleet Headquarters? Why not just grab her and then beam out?!

If Commodore Oh’s reaction is to believed, the team screwed it all up and dropped the ball.

 

[DEWLine]

Faces are sometimes called "maps".

 

[trek.]

Not that I expect anyone to be able to distinguish between a Vancouver accent versus a Toronto accent. I don't even know if I could.

You definitely can if someone from Toronto says 'out' or 'about'. On the west coast we sound like Californians.

 

[Lord Garth]

Anyone for Hater Bingo?

G is the most stubborn letter so far. I have everything else.

 

[Yminale]

I think part of what we're seeing is people (especially writers) love that deep-state spy mystery thriller stuff.

True but people don't understand how destructive an idea like Section 31 is especially the DS9 writer who treated them like cartoon villians. Section 31 is actually IN the charter of the federation. Writer are basically saying that they have no confidence in the ideals of the Federation and there we are going to create this genocidal secret police to do BAD things to keep the Federation going. If the Federation is willing NOT compelled to do bad things then there is no moral reason for it to exist. The Federation or no better than the Romulans or the Cardassians. That's Picard argument. If the Federation isn't morally superior what is the point of the Federation.

 

[SolarisOne]

The Federation or no better than the Romulans or the Cardassians.

It isn't. It aspires to be better. THAT'S the difference.

 

[fireproof78]

True but people don't understand how destructive an idea like Section 31 is especially the DS9 writer who treated them like cartoon villians. Section 31 is actually IN the charter of the federation. Writer are basically saying that they have no confidence in the ideals of the Federation and there we are going to create this genocidal secret police to do BAD things to keep the Federation going. If the Federation is willing NOT compelled to do bad things then there is no moral reason for it to exist. The Federation or no better than the Romulans or the Cardassians. That's Picard argument. If the Federation isn't morally superior what is the point of the Federation.

It's very simple and Captain Kirk puts it well:

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[Lord Garth]

That's Picard argument. If the Federation isn't morally superior what is the point of the Federation.

Yes, and that's a good argument for Picard to have. It's the exact argument he should have. That's what he believes and always has believed. That's what gives the series its inherent dramatic conflict. It's easy to preach to the choir, it's harder to preach to everyone else. That's what makes this show work.

 

[EmoBorg]

I think the idea of the Federation is to protect it's member planets from more aggressive powers like the Romulans and Klingons. If nasty things are needed to to be done to the enemies of the Federation, then Section 31 is for that purpose.

As for Commodore Oh, i hope she is a disgruntled Vulcan StarFleet Officer. I hope during the storyline, it is revealed that she diasgrees with the current Federation policy towards the Romulan State. She prefer helping them especially after the loss of their planet. That is why she is working with those Romulan agents.

 

[XCV330]

I gave it a six. in retrospect maybe should be a 7. Not a lot happened, lots of scheme talky backstory stuff.

 

[T'Bonz]

It isn't. It aspires to be better. THAT'S the difference.

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

 

[wayoung]

I think part of what we're seeing is people (especially writers) love that deep-state spy mystery thriller stuff. Look at Kurtzman body of work and that theme keeps popping up. It's not that its a bad thing, but in many ways it pulls back to the themes from films like the Nolan Batman trilogy or Scarface. The only thing people love more than seeing a hero rise up is a hero being torn down and self destruct and then rediscover/redeem themselves.

Keep in mind Orci, a well known batshit conspiracy theorist, was also heavily involved in the creation of Bad Robot Trek - to the point Into Darkness open on NIBARU. He ingrained this kinda stuff in their soul. Kurtzman is just continuing on.

 

[fireproof78]

Keep in mind Orci, a well known batshit conspiracy theorist, was also heavily involved in the creation of Bad Robot Trek - to the point Into Darkness open on NIBARU. He ingrained this kinda stuff in their soul. Kurtzman is just continuing on.

Good stuff. Hope it keeps going.

 

[Amaris]

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

So is the road to heaven. The trick is figuring out which architect we listen to as we lay each brick.

 

[wayoung]

Good stuff. Hope it keeps going.

I don't mind a mystery, I'd appreciate though if they stayed away from BS like naming a planet Nibiru and promoting real world dangerous conspiracy theories.

 

[nickyboy]

Loved it. voted 10

 

[Push The Button]

The Tal Shiar is just a front.
The real deep dark spy organization is the Zhat'Vash.



Kurtzman has already stated publicly that IF Worf shows up, he will look like he always has.
They aren't going to do big changes to him.

PICWorf will be 25% different.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't mind a mystery, I'd appreciate though if they stayed away from BS like naming a planet Nibiru and promoting real world dangerous conspiracy theories.

I don't see the issue...he's not declaring it truth in the film. It would be like being upset that the "Thor" street in the city I live it was invoking the Norse god, and where it intersects with "Freya" street" is a Norse worship site.

People believe what they believe. Besides believing in these conspiracy theories how has this impacted Trek in any noticeable way?

 

[Vger23]

I have heard Admirals and Generals say MUCH worse. Real ones.

Agreed. These are people with massive responsibilities and massive pressures. They're entitled to an F-bomb every once in a while.

Random thought: What if the TNG S1 Conspiracy parasites are controlling Starfleet again on a more massive scale?

I hope not. That might be digging into the well waaaaaay too deeply.

As for the criticism of how the peeps on Mars refer to the androids and how they are being used as 'Slaves'... I thought the scene went to great lengths to show these are not sentient, let alone the dialogue from the previous episode outlining how (at least during the time of the attack on Mars), Data was unique and they hadn't succeeded in recreating his sentience. Still, the whole flashback to Mars was a little jarring and at odds to how we've been led to believe citizens of the Federation 'work' - these didn't look and sound like people who were doing a job to better themselves, they downright sounded like any modern day industrial worker working for the man on a holiday and not wanting to be there at all.

People are people. A few hundred years isn't going to change that there are billions and billions of humans, all with unique backgrounds, values and personalities. No matter what the rhetoric of the "perfect Federation" would have you believe.

I have a feeling -Brett- is just voting one for the hell of it.

Really? I never would have guessed.

and Trek has been going down hill since then.

Nope. Not even close.