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Spoilers Fugitive of the Judoon grade and discussion thread

How do you rate Fugitive of the Judoon?

  • Total voters
    95
Romulan_spy said:
I don't like the theory that Ruth/Doc is a pre-Hartnell doctor because I feel like it would undermine Doctor who lore. But it could fit with the "timeless child" arc and the Master's warning about the Time Lords lying if the Doctor had a whole set of regenerations before Hartnell and wiped the Doctor's memories against the Doctor's will.

But I prefer the theory that Ruth/Doc is a Doctor from a parallel universe. It would be interesting to explore the concept of parallel universes where a Doctor experienced a different timeline. Maybe when the Master nuked Gallifrey, he inadvertently created a parallel universe. Ruth/Doc and Gat are from a parallel universe where Gallifrey still exists.
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The “lore” is based entirely on what the Doctor knows or has been shown on the series up to now. If the Doctor learned that she had a life before her first regeneration it wouldn’t upset what has been shown because the Doctor has no way of knowing that. Nothing has happened has been changed, it’s just new information given about her and her past that even she didn’t know about.

It’s really just a problem for the makers of the those videos of all the Doctor’s regenerations, now they have to re-edit all of them.
 
Awesome Possum said:
I’m guessing she’s a pre-Hartnell Doctor and this was what the Master was talking about. Gallifrey was up to something nefarious and used them both, they later wiped their memories gave them new regeneration cycles and tried to coverup the entire thing to create a false image of who they were. This is why the Doctor and Master are the only two Time Lords to really reject life on Gallifrey, on some level they know something was wrong but never could understand because those memories were gone but the feelings were still there.
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I'd much rather have this than the other speculation I'm seeing, that Ruth fits in between 2 and 3 somehow. A mysterious past and a reset regeneration cycle is a lot more appealing than them finding yet another way to cram a previously unknown regeneration into the canonical sequence.
 
Mr Soak said:
It’s all very simple. The Doctor we’ve been following for the last 60-ish years is really just some rando Time Lord who got infostamped, a la Jackson Lake (The Next Doctor) with the original Doctors’ data, just without the memories.

:shifty:
Also, remember, the SeventhDoctor put his foot in it a bit when he implied he and Rassilon were contemporaries at the founding of Time Lord society. Remembrance of the Daleks, I believe.
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And hey this for me goes back to The Brain of Morbius which suggested he had lives before the first Doctor.
 
Gepard said:
I'd much rather have this than the other speculation I'm seeing, that Ruth fits in between 2 and 3 somehow. A mysterious past and a reset regeneration cycle is a lot more appealing than them finding yet another way to cram a previously unknown regeneration into the canonical sequence.
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That would undo all the drama of 11 being the last of the previous cycle which is why he aged and couldn’t regenerate until the Time Lords intervened. I guess you could say the 10th’s failed regeneration didn’t really count, but it’s less interesting story wise.
 
Awesome Possum said:
That would undo all the drama of 11 being the last of the previous cycle which is why he aged and couldn’t regenerate until the Time Lords intervened. I guess you could say the 10th’s failed regeneration didn’t really count, but it’s less interesting story wise.
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And also it's like...after a certain point, why even bother with the numbers? I know it sounds super nitpicky, but if part of our understanding of this character is how the different versions of him/her flow into each other, the more shocking unknowns get stuffed between the gaps, the more I feel like it undermines some aspect of what it means for the Doctor to even be "Ten" or "Eleven."
 
Gepard said:
And also it's like...after a certain point, why even bother with the numbers? I know it sounds super nitpicky, but if part of our understanding of this character is how the different versions of him/her flow into each other, the more shocking unknowns get stuffed between the gaps, the more I feel like it undermines some aspect of what it means for the Doctor to even be "Ten" or "Eleven."
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What does it mean to be ten or eleven anyways? those are just numbers. They don't really define who that regeneration is.
 
Romulan_spy said:
I don't like the theory that Ruth/Doc is a pre-Hartnell doctor because I feel like it would undermine Doctor who lore. But it could fit with the "timeless child" arc and the Master's warning about the Time Lords lying if the Doctor had a whole set of regenerations before Hartnell and wiped the Doctor's memories against the Doctor's will.

But I prefer the theory that Ruth/Doc is a Doctor from a parallel universe. It would be interesting to explore the concept of parallel universes where a Doctor experienced a different timeline. Maybe when the Master nuked Gallifrey, he inadvertently created a parallel universe. Ruth/Doc and Gat are from a parallel universe where Gallifrey still exists.
Click to expand...
I've written basically this elsewhere. Glad to see I'm not the only one! We've seen the Doctor develop along his travels. We saw him learn how to become the Doctor. Undermining that would be a sad in my book.
 
The Wormhole said:
The main problem I see there is that I doubt they would lock in a future Doctor like that. Unless Jo Martin is already signed on to take over when Jodie Whittaker leaves. But with Whittaker confirmed to be returning for a third season, I don't see Jo Martin already committed to a role she won't properly take over for a few years yet.
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Unless Martin is a Doctor WAAAAAAY down the line when all of us are good and dead. She could be 125th Doctor.
But, like I said, I don't see that likely either, but it's an option.
 
Hang on a second, didn't Missy once say she remembered the Doctor as a little girl?

The Nth Doctor said:
Which is fine. But she didn't say that like The Doctor has often said in the past.
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Maybe because The Doctor has often said it we didn't need to hear it again?

Mr Awe said:
Well, mindmeld and then delete the knowledge (mind wipe) as necessary.
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I don't think the Doctor would willingly allow anyone to do that to them.

Romulan_spy said:
I don't like the theory that Ruth/Doc is a pre-Hartnell doctor because I feel like it would undermine Doctor who lore
Click to expand...
I don't mind at all. I like the idea that the Doctor had lives before the first like a previous set of 13 lives unremembered.

My theories:
1: It's a pre-Hartnell Doctor which is why she doesn't recognize the Sonice screwdriver and her Tardis interior is similar to the first Doctors. It doesn't match up with the 1st Doctor stealing a Tardis but maybe it does. Maybe the Doctor had to escape Gallifrey and in so doing needed to erase their memory? Why he chose a police box wasn't to blend in but subconsciously because his previous incarnation preferred the police box. Maybe Susan had something to do with the timeless child?

2: It's a regeneration between regenerations. In 'The Day of the Doctor' the 4th Doctor showed up mentioning that in the future he might be able to revisit a few familiar faces. What if the 8th Doctor regenerated into Ruth but somehow on the next regeneration was able to return to the likeness of the 8th Doctor? (i think this is less likely but I'm trying to work in the "December 1999" line.)

3: Not the Doctor, timestamp Doctor, fake, imposter, scam. Boring idea. We've seen this done before and it robs the mystery and build up of anticipation with this kind of cop out reveal.

4: Alternate Universe. I think this is a bit of a boring idea too. Although Multiverses are in vogue these days.

5: Clone, distant offspring? The Doctor's daughter? Clara?
 
Saul said:
Hang on a second, didn't Missy once say she remembered the Doctor as a little girl?


Maybe because The Doctor has often said it we didn't need to hear it again?


I don't think the Doctor would willingly allow anyone to do that to them.


I don't mind at all. I like the idea that the Doctor had lives before the first like a previous set of 13 lives unremembered.

My theories:
1: It's a pre-Hartnell Doctor which is why she doesn't recognize the Sonice screwdriver and her Tardis interior is similar to the first Doctors. It doesn't match up with the 1st Doctor stealing a Tardis but maybe it does. Maybe the Doctor had to escape Gallifrey and in so doing needed to erase their memory? Why he chose a police box wasn't to blend in but subconsciously because his previous incarnation preferred the police box. Maybe Susan had something to do with the timeless child?

2: It's a regeneration between regenerations. In 'The Day of the Doctor' the 4th Doctor showed up mentioning that in the future he might be able to revisit a few familiar faces. What if the 8th Doctor regenerated into Ruth but somehow on the next regeneration was able to return to the likeness of the 8th Doctor? (i think this is less likely but I'm trying to work in the "December 1999" line.)

3: Not the Doctor, timestamp Doctor, fake, imposter, scam. Boring idea. We've seen this done before and it robs the mystery and build up of anticipation with this kind of cop out reveal.

4: Alternate Universe. I think this is a bit of a boring idea too. Although Multiverses are in vogue these days.

5: Clone, distant offspring? The Doctor's daughter? Clara?
Click to expand...

I would find using December 1999 interesting, over in the books Unnatural History did some interesting stuff with The Doctors biodata strung round the planet, which the Show already borrowed from.
Maybe it’s the Roberts Master having a Jackson Lake moment. XD
 
Paul Weaver said:
It was very specific - Chekovs date as it were.
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We say that. But apparently Chibnall has already stated that’s it for Jack this season, so either (a) that’s not really Jack or (b) Chibnall doesn’t get the whole Chekhov thing.
 
I have a smart friend.

"How can the New Doctor be pre Hartnel, if the TARDIS looks like a police Box? Because that happened when the Doctor and Susan visited London 1963."
 
Saul said:
My theories:
1: It's a pre-Hartnell Doctor which is why she doesn't recognize the Sonice screwdriver and her Tardis interior is similar to the first Doctors. It doesn't match up with the 1st Doctor stealing a Tardis but maybe it does. Maybe the Doctor had to escape Gallifrey and in so doing needed to erase their memory? Why he chose a police box wasn't to blend in but subconsciously because his previous incarnation preferred the police box. Maybe Susan had something to do with the timeless child?
Click to expand...
Actually, your evidence suggests it's between Hartnell and Troughton. After Hartnell because the TARDIS took and got stuck in the shape of the police box with Hartnell. Before Troughton because she doesn't recognize the sonic screwdriver. That's just evidence readily apparent in this episode.
 
Mr Awe said:
Actually, your evidence suggests it's between Hartnell and Troughton. After Hartnell because the TARDIS took and got stuck in the shape of the police box with Hartnell. Before Troughton because she doesn't recognize the sonic screwdriver. That's just evidence readily apparent in this episode.
Click to expand...

So, Bill accidentally rewrote the regen.
 
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