That's funny. I just saw that episode of Open Air on the Blu Ray set for Season 23. I remember that young guy and I had no idea it was Chibnall!
Spoilers Fugitive of the Judoon grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
If they (showrunners) wanted to definitively establish that the two Doctors were the same Doctor, they would've had them connect and share all possible information. As it was, they didn't do that or even compare notes! Seems like room for doubt was intentionally left open.
You could be right. But, I don't know, seems like it was left ambiguous for a reason.
Oh damn. I need to start watching this show on a regular basis again.
That wasn't just fan service. That was a really good and fun episode.
I love the new/old Doctor.
That wasn't just fan service. That was a really good and fun episode.
I love the new/old Doctor.
That might really mess up the past Doctor's timeline if they have knowledge of their own future events. It seems like something that would complicate matters more. Knowing that Gallifrey was destroyed is already a big no no. Giving Ruth Doctor access to the events of 800 doctor who episodes would be potentially disastrous.
Which is fine. But she didn't say that like The Doctor has often said in the past.
I definitely don't hold DW to a strict continuity. However, there are some pillars of the series which you tamper with at your peril. I'd say there's only a few. But, the general history of the Doctor is one of them. After all. we've watched him onscreen for over 50 years. He started as a blank cypher and slowly filled in some of the blanks. To overturn what has been revealed in that process is risky. I didn't like the idea of the War Doctor for that reason, but it worked largely thanks to how awesome Hurt was. But, to do a similar thing but perhaps even larger scale, I don't know. I guess the War Doctor shows it can work, but the risk is huge.
We watched the process of how the Doctor learned how to be the Doctor. As One, he was still unsure about what he was doing and how he'd go about it. That was refined over time. It was a journey we took together. We knew his/her incarnations. Etc.
YMMV. But, I'd rather Chibnall not tinker with the underlying foundation, changing the backstory, etc. but rather moving forward and adding new things. New things to the Doctor's future not retroactively adding new things to the Doctor's past.
I'll grant that if this is a Pre-Hartnell Doctor, there might be a scenario where this works. But, well, we'll see . . . I'm holding out hope that this is an alternate Doctor from an alternate Universe.
I’m guessing she’s a pre-Hartnell Doctor and this was what the Master was talking about. Gallifrey was up to something nefarious and used them both, they later wiped their memories gave them new regeneration cycles and tried to coverup the entire thing to create a false image of who they were. This is why the Doctor and Master are the only two Time Lords to really reject life on Gallifrey, on some level they know something was wrong but never could understand because those memories were gone but the feelings were still there.
Agreed. Going from a season with no references to the past to a season with references to the past is one thing. But, we got that and a whole tonal shift. And, even the references to the past are on steroids!
I'm sensing that Chibnall got the memo. And, in this case, the memo relayed the findings of BBC's audience research into how the series was received.
I also agree that Orphan 55 really wasn't that bad.
But, with the new mystery Doctor, I think they *have* thrown the kitchen sink at us!
Well, mindmeld and then delete the knowledge (mind wipe) as necessary.
The Doctor tends to forget meeting future versions until they become the future version, which is why Nine didn’t remember the he saved Gallifrey instead of destroying it.
Oh.
I get it now.
Jack is going Boff the wrong Doctor.
So we got Jack covered in Gallifreian fluids, but Jodies cherry is left in the vault.
Everyone wins.
I get it now.
Jack is going Boff the wrong Doctor.
So we got Jack covered in Gallifreian fluids, but Jodies cherry is left in the vault.
Everyone wins.
If one of them has lost her memory comparing notes is pointless because the information will be inaccurate.
Agreed, but maybe in a year or two when they come across a Jack that's thousands of years older...
That would be awesome. But probably too much fan service.
Given that Jo Doctor pointedly looked at the sonic and asked what it was, we're clearly being led down the path of pre-Hartnell Doctors. Going back to The Doctor and The Master for a moment, I think you're onto something. In 'The Sound of Drums' we saw The Doctor and The Master look into the Untempered Schism as 'children.' The Master went mad and wanted to burn creation down to try and stop the drumming that played in his mind. The Doctor felt unstoppable fear and ran away from Gallifreyan society. What if both of them were, as you say, given just a hint of understanding from this experience that Gallifrey was somehow 'wrong?' It's notable that the drums were referenced again this season, this time further contextualized as a double heartbeat.
Yep, I think you've nailed it. The Doctor and The Master both had an subconscious inkling that something was very wrong with the story of Gallifrey they'd been told but each reacted in an almost diametrically opposed way: The Master with fight and The Doctor with flight.
There might be events in each others memories that could tie things together. The forgotten memories wouldn't be compared but Ruth Doctor knows her Gallifrey and perhaps our Doctor would recognized the general time frame from history. Who was the Chancellor. Other officials. History up to Ruth's point. Things like that.
Even if our Doctor didn't realize she was alive at that point in history, she'd presumably remember the historical perspective of when Ruth was on Gallifrey.
It fits as an explanation for all the renegades - The Corsair, The Meddling Monk, The War Chief - they all know there is a wrongness - some try to just run away and some try and destroy it.
Oh, it would definitely be too much fan service.
But too much fan service has happened before.
Watching the scene the Master describes what made him attack Gallifrey comes off as him being disturbed to the point of trauma. It’s pure speculation on my part, but the Jo Doctor was hiding on Earth for some reason to avoid the other Time Lords. Maybe she and the pre-wipe Master fought against what was happening with the Master being the one who convinced her. It went bad and she fled to Earth and the Master’s reaction will be revealed later. When caught they were wiped and forced regenerated to children. Their residual personalities keeping them close. But for whatever reason they saw the Master as the greater rebel and maybe even why the Doctor went along with him, so he got the drums in his head as a punishment. His whole post-wipe life and madness was a sadistic punishment for trying to do the right thing, learning that broke him and he seems to think the Doctor is going to at least sympathize with him when she learns the truth.