It's not shocking. I don't like TMP.
What is shocking is the assumption of malice or apathy on the part of the production team.
I want to see those damn turtleneck sweater uniforms from The Cage & WNMHGB!
- Thread starter bryce
- Start date
What is shocking is the assumption of malice or apathy on the part of the production team.
Have you watched Star Trek? The most consistent thing is usually it's inconsistency.
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
Its more looking at something and saying "does this still work?" than inconsistency. A philosophy that Star Trek has been using since day one. That's why lasers, the UESPA and Vulcanian didn't make it past the pilots and season one. It's why costumes make up and props are changed. To be successful, any property in it for the long haul has to be willing to reinvent it's self. Yeah sometimes it hard to tell the baby from the bathwater and not everyone has the same definition for "bathwater". But them's the breaks.
How are you quantifying this?
Hey the people who want to say the Enterprise-Disco bridge is the same as the Cage bridge are free to do so. They just also have to go on record saying that Kor, Kang, and Koloth had ridges in TOS tooto be consistent.
I see ridges.
"impression is about say" = not quantified
TOS was making it up as they went along. 80% is way too high TNG pretty much rewote the book and ignored a lot of TOS. So it gets a lower score too. Same for DS9 and VOY. Their rewrites of the Klingons and Romulans alone knocks down their percentages faster than a failing shield.
TNG pretty much rewote the book and ignored a lot of TOS. So it gets a lower score too. Same for DS9 and VOY. Their rewrites of the Klingons and Romulans alone knocks down their percentages faster than a failing shield.
Just what I could remember on the spot:
TOS continuity errors: UESPA, Vulcanian, Vulcan being conquered, James R Kirk
TNG continuity errors: Data graduating in 73 or whatever it was, the AGT 2363 bridge having the season 7 chair, Worf's Quch changing, Romulan ridges
DS9 continuity errors: don't remember any
VOY continuity errors: More than 1 shuttlebay, way too many shuttles and torpedoes, Borg always assimilating since centuries, Borg having sexes/genders
ENT continuity errors: no lasers, phase cannons and photonic torpedoes already, ship never mentioned before and not on TMP wall, "first Enterprise" was 1701 before, some tech looks more advanced than TOS, Borg withstand more 22nd phase pistol shots than 24th century phaser shots
DIS continuity errors: Holographic communication, holodeck simulations, viewscreens and consoles more advanced than even in TNG-VOY, spore drive not even the Borg know about in VOY and no one re-discovered later, Klingon cloaking devices before TOS, all Klingon designs looking verydifferent from how they looked in ENT before and TNG-VOY later, Enterprise size difference and major design changes though we saw how it looked before (Cage) and after (TOS, TNG, DS9, ENT)...
TOS continuity errors: UESPA, Vulcanian, Vulcan being conquered, James R Kirk
TNG continuity errors: Data graduating in 73 or whatever it was, the AGT 2363 bridge having the season 7 chair, Worf's Quch changing, Romulan ridges
DS9 continuity errors: don't remember any
VOY continuity errors: More than 1 shuttlebay, way too many shuttles and torpedoes, Borg always assimilating since centuries, Borg having sexes/genders
ENT continuity errors: no lasers, phase cannons and photonic torpedoes already, ship never mentioned before and not on TMP wall, "first Enterprise" was 1701 before, some tech looks more advanced than TOS, Borg withstand more 22nd phase pistol shots than 24th century phaser shots
DIS continuity errors: Holographic communication, holodeck simulations, viewscreens and consoles more advanced than even in TNG-VOY, spore drive not even the Borg know about in VOY and no one re-discovered later, Klingon cloaking devices before TOS, all Klingon designs looking verydifferent from how they looked in ENT before and TNG-VOY later, Enterprise size difference and major design changes though we saw how it looked before (Cage) and after (TOS, TNG, DS9, ENT)...
How did TNG-VOY contradict TOS beyond what I remember?TOS was making it up as they went along. 80% is way too high
If They had made ENTERPRISE the way many fans imagined, it wouldn't have lasted beyond the first season.
And using the fact that the NX had never been mentioned before as a continuity problem, is pretty dang lame as far as I'm concerned.
How about all the other Enterprise ships throughout history that weren't included on the TMP remembrance wall?
Just because they weren't there doesn't mean they didn't exist.
VOYAGER introduced several ships from the past that were never mentioned before, does that mean they didn't exist either?
The NX-01 was an early Earth Star Fleet ship, not a Federation Star Fleet one.
It's easy to be critical and dismissive, but I guess it is too difficult for some to be willing to use ones imagination and a bit of creativity to figure out how things fit.
Fandom is supposed to be FUN, not a reason to be whiny and disdainful.
And using the fact that the NX had never been mentioned before as a continuity problem, is pretty dang lame as far as I'm concerned.
How about all the other Enterprise ships throughout history that weren't included on the TMP remembrance wall?
Just because they weren't there doesn't mean they didn't exist.
VOYAGER introduced several ships from the past that were never mentioned before, does that mean they didn't exist either?
The NX-01 was an early Earth Star Fleet ship, not a Federation Star Fleet one.
It's easy to be critical and dismissive, but I guess it is too difficult for some to be willing to use ones imagination and a bit of creativity to figure out how things fit.
Fandom is supposed to be FUN, not a reason to be whiny and disdainful.
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This seems to be missed over the years.
At one point Peers refers to "the Trillian government"
Bashier once commented that you can't tell if someone is dead via tricorder. Lots of episodes wouldn't have happened if that were the case.
Sisko once implied his dad was dead, early on. Maybe Bashier used a tricorder on him?
Plus the Trill reimagining.
All Trek series have their quirks. It's part of the fun...in theory.
Was more than one carrier missing?
The conference room wall on the D also had the others, but not that one.
Which (that were in a previously established group)?
DULMUR: Be specific, Captain. Which Enterprise? There've been five.
LUCSLY: Six.
SISKO: This was the first Enterprise. Constitution class.
The dedication plaques also start counting with the 1701 as the first to bear the name.
Do you think pointing out mistakes, things that don't fit, finding contradictions and discussing them is whiny and disdainful? For me it's part of the fun of being a fan and seemingly knowing more than the production team, or having a deeper understanding of the material (it just feels that way when they deliberately choose to ignore established things cause they don't care). I still would've preferred to see the adventures of the XCV-330 instead of the NX-01
Never forget that in "The Seige of AR-558" they all forgot phasers have a "wide field" setting that would have ended the battle in about a minute.
It comes across as that, yes.
I have that book and that is by far my favorite novella! I seriously want a sequel to it set in the TNG timeline. Also, I DID happen to point out that we DO see a DSC Cage inspired turtleneck design in the Short Trek "Trouble With Edward" minisode.
I am pretty sure those are just the version of the Discovery uniforms they wear under the armor.
Was more than one carrier missing?
The conference room wall on the D also had the others, but not that one.
Which (that were in a previously established group)?
DULMUR: Be specific, Captain. Which Enterprise? There've been five.
LUCSLY: Six.
SISKO: This was the first Enterprise. Constitution class.
The dedication plaques also start counting with the 1701 as the first to bear the name.
Do you think pointing out mistakes, things that don't fit, finding contradictions and discussing them is whiny and disdainful? For me it's part of the fun of being a fan and seemingly knowing more than the production team, or having a deeper understanding of the material (it just feels that way when they deliberately choose to ignore established things cause they don't care). I still would've preferred to see the adventures of the XCV-330 instead of the NX-01
When your opening premise is that the production folks Don't Care, YES, that very much comes across as whiny and disdainful.
And assuming that because things were done in a different way, the people behind the scenes are not as knowledgeable as we the fans may be, is also very egotistical.
Your final sentence is exactly the reason I started my post with this sentence...
"If They had made ENTERPRISE the way many fans imagined, it wouldn't have lasted beyond the first season."
Is that not a turtleneck shirt?I am pretty sure those are just the version of the Discovery uniforms they wear under the armor.
Also, Edwards doesn't have the thicker reinforced shoulder and elbows, nor the thick velcro at the end of the sleeve.
Seems that we all have our quirks about what is and isn't correct, personally, I prefer to go with being all Inclusive rather than Exclusive with what is presented to us by the people that put in all the hard work to keep Star Trek in production for our entertainment benefit.
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Like I thought. You don't subscribe to the idea of a "visual reboot". If you did, that would eliminate most of what's on your list.
As far as the Borg not knowing about Spore Drive: until they assimilate someone who knows about it, they won't know about it. Until they can scan a starship or starbase with the information, they won't know about it.
"They assimilated Picard, and it was after he mind-melded with Sarek!" Yes. But a mind-meld isn't the same as a permanent info dump. Ask McCoy who went through more than just a mind-meld and actually carried Spock's katra. I re-watched "Sarek" (TNG) a month-and-a-half ago. Picard wasn't mind-melded that long and only knew what was on Sarek's mind at the moment while Sarek was completing his last diplomatic mission. You can know someone without knowing their entire biography. And the reverse is also true. You can know someone's biography but not know the actual person behind it at all.
EDIT: On the other hand, the Borg might've deemed the Spore Drive too flawed and would've probably preferred focusing on perfecting slipstream or wormhole technology. Look at "Endgame" and how fast they got from the Delta Quadrant to the Alpha Quadrant. They really don't need a silly thing like the Spore Drive. Why depend on a Mycellial Network when you don't have to?
Unless the Borg have taken to assimilating fungus. Maybe the beings in the Network know how to fight back the Borg. If Species 8472 can do it, so can they. The Borg overstate their abilities too many times. Just to intimidate people. That's why the Borg Queen finally revealed herself after the "ominous threat of a collective voice" didn't work anymore. Familiarity breeds contempt. Once you know someone and you know they can be beaten, they won't ever be as scary again. Which is why "Q Who?" and "The Best of Both Worlds" can never be recaptured.
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When your opening premise is that the production folks Don't Care, YES, that very much comes across as whiny and disdainful.
And assuming that because things were done in a different way, the people behind the scenes are not as knowledgeable as we the fans may be, is also very egotistical.
They forgot to add rank strips to the Enterprise uniforms until someone pointed it out during shooting. Previous productions seemed more invested in consistency, sets fitting the ships, designs and writing making sense, etc. I find that is either carelessness or they forgot. When I say "How can they forget that?", I'm surprised instead of whiny, and disappointed cause they could have so easily done it a better way.
This is the same production that turned Yeoman Colt into a spiky alien. I'd love to see it explained how the Talosians expected Pike to breed with her.
Maybe the "it was always that way" fans can provide some insight?Personally, my headcanon for Colt was that she was near death and was forced to use Krall's life extension tech to save her life on a spiky alien, in turn making her resemble one.
