Episode IX Speculation and Discussion

[Smellmet]

yes. sure.. yep.
But one thing I loved about the originals is that they have remarkable verisimilitude. It might not hold up to scrutiny if looked too closely, but the machines look like they work.. the Falcon is like an old car etc..the production design (everything from the colors used to all the greebles etc) was all up to a certain level where you just believed it.. the sets and props and the way the people used them..) .. helps buy into an utter fantasy

The 'lived in' feel to the SW universe has always been one of it strengths, especially in the OT, but what has your answer got to do with the force vision with the lightsaber, or how it was recovered (for which there has already been a precedent set - how did Luke get the light sabre at the beginning of ESB)

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

what do you mean how did Luke get the lightsaber at the beginning of ESB.. he HAD it.. it was given to him in the previous film
my point is that the idea of inanimate object calling to people was never a thing in SW

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Remember this film is written by the same guy that stated "the lightsaber called to you" yet no other Star Wars movie does Force work through an object.

In The Empire Strikes Back (1980), the cave on Dagobah was strong with the dark side of the Force.

Yoda: That place is strong with the dark side of the Force. A domain of evil it is. In you must go.​

If the Force can work through a cave, why not a lightsaber that had been wielded by two of the most important Jedi ever?

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

a place and a thing like an object) are two different things. Though it has been argued that the cave having the dark side of the force is why Yoda chose to hide there.. I never cared about that.. I just cared more about the story at hand, and how it affected the characters.. that Yoda was trying to teach Luke a lesson.. that Yoda could sense the dark side in Luke based his traits of impatience and was just testing him. That's how I interpreted it.. because they wrote sound character stuff. (BTW just because Luke had impatience.. a Dark Side trait doesn't mean he is the awful person in any sense that RJ made him out to be.. but I'm not going to argue that.. I can do that until the cows come home). My point is that the people that worked on the original films actually crafted scenes that resonated with the audience.. because they are rooted in good storytelling

 

[Tosk]

how did Luke get the light sabre at the beginning of ESB

Obi-Wan took it out of a chest and handed it to Luke.

 

[Smellmet]

Obi-Wan took it out of a chest and handed it to Luke.

I always thought it was the same light sabre that Obi Wan had when he was killed by Vader. I guess now I think about it why would it be? One of those things that's stuck in my head from watching it as kid.

 

[Tosk]

I always thought it was the same light sabre that Obi Wan had when he was killed by Vader. I guess now I think about it why would it be? One of those things that's stuck in my head from watching it as kid.

Yeah Obi-Wan had his own saber, the one he gave Luke used to be Anakin's. But I totally get that thing about kid perception sticking for years. Been there too.

 

[Campe]

a place and a thing like an object) are two different things.

The only difference is your mind. Sorry, had to.

Seriously though, you’re suggesting that we know literally everything about a mystical magical force that controls everything and absolutely nothing can be added to that past what was produced in 2005? Am I getting that right?

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

The only difference is your mind. Sorry, had to.

Seriously though, you’re suggesting that we know literally everything about a mystical magical force that controls everything and absolutely nothing can be added to that past what was produced in 2005? Am I getting that right?

I just want GOOD storytelling, not contrived storytelling. If it feels wrong and ultimately doesn't add much to the mythos, that's bad storytelling. If the whole movie had a great, interesting story I might be able to forgive a lot (there was a lot about Rogue One and Solo that I didn't like, but in the end I liked the overall story and can be more giving the little niggling plot issues) but .. mainly due to a lazy script that leaned heavily on coincidences and a protagonist that is just not interesting at all, TFA actually made the Star Wars universe less interesting

 

[Campe]

I just want GOOD storytelling, not contrived storytelling. If it feels wrong and ultimately doesn't add much to the mythos, that's bad storytelling. If the whole movie had a great, interesting story I might be able to forgive a lot (there was a lot about Rogue One and Solo that I didn't like, but in the end I liked the overall story and can be more giving the little niggling plot issues) but .. mainly due to a lazy script that leaned heavily on coincidences and a protagonist that is just not interesting at all, TFA actually made the Star Wars universe less interesting

First, “good” is a matter of perspective. One man’s From Justin to Kelly is another’s The Godfather.

As for contrived, isn’t all storytelling in some form contrived? Isn’t there contrivances that led Artoo and Threepio from Princess Leia to Luke? Which then led the three of them to Obi-Wan? Which then led them to Han and Chewie? Which then led them, despite their desire to go to Alderaan which was destroyed and then led them to the Death Star where Princess Leia, the woman who started Artoo and Threepio on their journey happened to be?

Let me be clear. I’m not criticizing the original Star Wars. I’m just saying that that to me seems like a series of contrivances that are, yes, plot points, but a series of conveniences to get characters from A to B.

But in a universe where a place can be brimming with the Force, I don’t understand why an object can’t either? Particularly one with as much history as the Skywalker lightsaber.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

a place and a thing like an object) are two different things

If we're talking real physics, a place is defined by the objects/particles/energy that inhabit it. There is no such thing as a place devoid of objects/particles/energy, no such thing as empty space, no such thing as a perfect vacuum.

In any case, Rey being attracted to Luke's and Anakin's lightsaber is not a radical departure from what little had been established in the OT. It's also quite compatible with the (IMO outstanding) Clone Wars episode "The Gathering."

This just comes down to, "I like this, I don't like that."

 

[Campe]

Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship.
-Yoda

Now, someone is going to come here and say I'm misconstruing this and it just has to do with lifting things. I don't think so. It is literally suggesting, like @CorporalCaptain infers, that the Force is everywhere and in everything.

 

[fireproof78]

This just comes down to, "I like this, I don't like that."

Pretty much.

 

[Tuskin38]

yet no other Star Wars movie does Force work through an object.

Movie, no. But it has happened in various novels.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

If we're talking real physics, a place is defined by the objects/particles/energy that inhabit it. There is no such thing as a place devoid of objects/particles/energy, no such thing as empty space, no such thing as a perfect vacuum.

In any case, Rey being attracted to Luke's and Anakin's lightsaber is not a radical departure from what little had been established in the OT. It's also quite compatible with the (IMO outstanding) Clone Wars episode "The Gathering."

This just comes down to, "I like this, I don't like that."

Yes and no. SW has never beenb completely consistent, but it has established a feel and an aesthetic.
So while one can argue till the cows come home how the piles of details in the sequel trilogy can be reconciled with the original trilogy, that doesn't mean any of it feels right.. none of it does,a t least to me. So yeah my opinion. But that doens't mean they could not have made it work.
they have. Solo, R1, and the Mandalorian seem to work for me

 

[Campe]

As someone mentioned upthread that the kyber crystals spoke to the younglings in an episode of Clone Wars. That even moreso lends credence to the idea that a lightsaber (with a kyber crystal in it) speaking to Rey.

 

[Campe]

Yes and no. SW has never beenb completely consistent, but it has established a feel and an aesthetic.
So while one can argue till the cows come home how the piles of details in the sequel trilogy can be reconciled with the original trilogy, that doesn't mean any of it feels right.. none of it does,a t least to me. So yeah my opinion. But that doens't mean they could not have made it work.
they have. Solo, R1, and the Mandalorian seem to work for me

And you're absolutely entitled to that opinion. But if you're presenting your opinion in a forum like this and there are those who don't agree with you, they're going to state their disagreements. This is a place to debate not a soapbox to state "I hath spoken!"

I mean, you could do that. But you'll probably get a lot of eyerolls.

 

[Awesome Possum]

I wish we could just talk about Star Wars and speculate what might happen or what should happen instead of endlessly debating whether it’s good or not with no one changing. It’s not debate or discussion, it’s just endless yelling at each other. That’s not enjoyable, there’s absolutely no thought out into it and just makes it an absolutely miserable experience for fans who just want to talk about things they love. Maybe fandom debate has just devolved to the point where we’re no longer intellectually capable to debate anything more complex than what a toddler thinks and it’s just going to get worse as time goes on. But I wish we could just give over this stupid back and forth. I don’t fucking care whether you like or hate something, no one does. And worst of all, it’s spread to every single current genre series. We can’t talk about Star Trek, Star Wars, Doctor Who, Marvel or DC without mindless back and forth over whether it’s good or bad and what elaborate conspiracy ruined it or saved. It’s not just a problem here, it’s all over and it’s a stupid waste of time everywhere.

 

[Campe]

^Fair. Let's get back on track.

It seems as though Disney is not afraid to go back to the discarded stuff from concept art and original drafts of the OT screenplays. I've wondered for awhile now if it they might consider going back to an original concept for the end of Jedi in which Obi-Wan, Anakin and Yoda would return from "the netherworld" at the end of the film. An Esquire article from September actually speaks to this. Could this happen? Would see see all of our Jedi friends from the past reincarnated? Would we see Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Yoda, Anakin and Luke in the flesh again? Or would it just be a redeemed Ben Solo who sacrifices himself? Since I first read about this idea years ago, its really stuck with me. And something about the "No one's ever really gone" line from TLJ revived that feeling, not to mention that the "netherworld"
Jedi seem to be capable of more with every appearance. Could it happen? We'll know in about a month!

 

[JD]

I've been wondering if whatever process is used to bring Palpatine might be used to bring Luke back to. I've noticed that we still have seen no sign of Luke in any of the promotional stuff, and I would think if his role was simply him being a Force ghost giving out advice to Rey we would have seen him by now. The fact that they seem to be purposefully avoiding anything involving him makes me think there's more to his appearance than we expect.