Was Riker insubordinate during "Chain of Command"?
- Thread starter AdamNY
- Start date
I agree that Riker can be a immature man, like he was against Shelby, Lavelle and Jellico
I think more egregious was his petulant whining at Picard when he was seeing Nella Darren.
The temerity of him moaning to Picard that he’s “uncomfortable” with her doing her job. They were in an appropriate relationship, unlike his slimeball flirting with every female ensign Thst caught his eye...and Data’s day old daughter. He’s just yuck.
Moved to a more appropriate forum.
Lal kissed him, though
Yep.
Riker did have a growth spurt sometime before this episode and his beard appeared in season 2 but maybe he reached puberty in these episodes? He was like an angry teen. Perhaps even a little bit out of character?
Last edited:
To be fair, according to my Navy friends, irritated and disliking your captain is a national sport. The Enterprise's big happy family doesn't have to be an atmosphere that is replicated as long as people do their job.
On the ship prior to the Enterprise, where Riker was also first officer, he once refused to allow his captain to beam down.
Refused?
Not counseled against, not discussed the matter. Riker dictated the actions of his commanding officer. It's not clear if Captain DeSoto ignored Riker's refusal and beamed down as he originally intended.
Riker doesn't understand the chain of command, or that even as a full commander he is still subordinated to officers superior in rank and position. After hearing Captain Jellico instructions and voicing his alternatives to them, Riker should have carried out Jellico's commands to the best of his abilities..
Refused?
Not counseled against, not discussed the matter. Riker dictated the actions of his commanding officer. It's not clear if Captain DeSoto ignored Riker's refusal and beamed down as he originally intended.
Riker doesn't understand the chain of command, or that even as a full commander he is still subordinated to officers superior in rank and position. After hearing Captain Jellico instructions and voicing his alternatives to them, Riker should have carried out Jellico's commands to the best of his abilities..
Last edited:
This is an ancient argument, but I always stand by my assessment:
Riker was 100% in the wrong in "Chain of Command." Whether or not Jellico was a dick is completely irrelevant. Jellico is the frigging CO of the ship. Riker's job as the XO is to get stuff done for him and follow orders. Period. So yes, by definition, Riker was absolutely insubordinate. If he presented alternate options or expressed concerns and Jellico dismissed them, that's the end of it. "Get it done," indeed!
And Riker is my favorite TNG character.
Riker was 100% in the wrong in "Chain of Command." Whether or not Jellico was a dick is completely irrelevant. Jellico is the frigging CO of the ship. Riker's job as the XO is to get stuff done for him and follow orders. Period. So yes, by definition, Riker was absolutely insubordinate. If he presented alternate options or expressed concerns and Jellico dismissed them, that's the end of it. "Get it done," indeed!
And Riker is my favorite TNG character.
But Riker wasn't even doing his job in any sense of it. He didn't do what Jellico ordered him to do, he didn't support Jellico's orders to the rest of the crew or ensure they were implemented, and he also actively participated in/encouraged his junior officers to insubordinate behavior. The only "regular" Enterprise officer who acts like a professional in this episode is Data.
And yet, the few times we do see him as captain, he does just fine.
This is explained on screen several times in the first season or two. A primary responsibility of Riker as first officer is to keep his captain safe. Why is this even an argument? Yes, they toned that down in later seasons but it was there in the beginning.
Sure, he does fine, but also exhibits some immaturity. In BoBW, Guinan has to come counsel him. In Gambit, Picard "dies," so Riker begins his investigation. The very first place they go, Riker beams down with the away team and is captured.
Because he can do what he want
I think there were things that Riker could have done better but that goes for Jellico too.
Jellico wanted too much from the crew too fast. Perhaps Riker was right when he snapped him back a bit.
If they had more time to get to know each other in a normal situation, not in a crisis, they might have gotten along just fine.
Jellico wanted too much from the crew too fast. Perhaps Riker was right when he snapped him back a bit.
If they had more time to get to know each other in a normal situation, not in a crisis, they might have gotten along just fine.
Jellico seems to be under the impression that this is a permanent change of command. That being the case, a new commander, or a new manager, or even a new teacher needs to set a tone very quickly, and "come out swinging."
The episode doesn't make a lot of sense, though. Even though they gave reasons why it had to be Picard, Crusher, and Word on the mission, it should really be a specialized team that trains for these kinds of missions all the time, not a starship captain or a chief medical officer.
If Jellico assumed his new command was permanent, it would mean Starfleet had very low expectations of Picard's mission succeeding, and were going to sacrifice him.
The episode doesn't make a lot of sense, though. Even though they gave reasons why it had to be Picard, Crusher, and Word on the mission, it should really be a specialized team that trains for these kinds of missions all the time, not a starship captain or a chief medical officer.
If Jellico assumed his new command was permanent, it would mean Starfleet had very low expectations of Picard's mission succeeding, and were going to sacrifice him.
