Was Riker insubordinate during "Chain of Command"?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by AdamNY, Sep 20, 2019.

  1. AdamNY

    AdamNY Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    As much as I love Riker, it does seem this episode proves he's unfit to be in the military cause he can't seem to handle working for new people and adapting to change.
     
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  2. Prof. Axe

    Prof. Axe Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That is why Riker doesn't have the maturity to be captain. It's not the first time he acted like that. However, when he's in his comfort zone, he seems to be a competent first officer.
     
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  3. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Commodore Commodore

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    I agree that Riker can be a immature man, like he was against Shelby, Lavelle and Jellico
     
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  4. unimatrix7

    unimatrix7 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think more egregious was his petulant whining at Picard when he was seeing Nella Darren.

    The temerity of him moaning to Picard that he’s “uncomfortable” with her doing her job. They were in an appropriate relationship, unlike his slimeball flirting with every female ensign Thst caught his eye...and Data’s day old daughter. He’s just yuck.
     
  5. Beautiful and Terrible Romantic

    Beautiful and Terrible Romantic love me and despair Moderator

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    Moved to a more appropriate forum.
     
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  6. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Commander Red Shirt

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    Lal kissed him, though
     
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  7. KennyB

    KennyB Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Has the OP already bit the dust? That was fast.
     
  8. Mutai Sho-Rin

    Mutai Sho-Rin Crusty Old Bastard Moderator

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    Yep.
     
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  9. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    Riker was a whiny little bitch in that episode. Very unprofessional.
     
  10. gakelly

    gakelly Commander Red Shirt

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    Riker is petty in a lot of episodes.
    His entitlement was so obvious in Chain of Command. He couldn't handle the fact that he wasn't given command of the Enterprise.
     
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  11. JesterFace

    JesterFace Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Riker did have a growth spurt sometime before this episode and his beard appeared in season 2 but maybe he reached puberty in these episodes? He was like an angry teen. Perhaps even a little bit out of character?
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
  12. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    To be fair, according to my Navy friends, irritated and disliking your captain is a national sport. The Enterprise's big happy family doesn't have to be an atmosphere that is replicated as long as people do their job.
     
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  13. Gabriel

    Gabriel Captain Captain

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    I must say it was not his finest hours.
     
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  14. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    On the ship prior to the Enterprise, where Riker was also first officer, he once refused to allow his captain to beam down.

    Refused?

    Not counseled against, not discussed the matter. Riker dictated the actions of his commanding officer. It's not clear if Captain DeSoto ignored Riker's refusal and beamed down as he originally intended.

    Riker doesn't understand the chain of command, or that even as a full commander he is still subordinated to officers superior in rank and position. After hearing Captain Jellico instructions and voicing his alternatives to them, Riker should have carried out Jellico's commands to the best of his abilities..
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
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  15. Vger23

    Vger23 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This is an ancient argument, but I always stand by my assessment:

    Riker was 100% in the wrong in "Chain of Command." Whether or not Jellico was a dick is completely irrelevant. Jellico is the frigging CO of the ship. Riker's job as the XO is to get stuff done for him and follow orders. Period. So yes, by definition, Riker was absolutely insubordinate. If he presented alternate options or expressed concerns and Jellico dismissed them, that's the end of it. "Get it done," indeed!

    And Riker is my favorite TNG character.
     
  16. Mysterion

    Mysterion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But Riker wasn't even doing his job in any sense of it. He didn't do what Jellico ordered him to do, he didn't support Jellico's orders to the rest of the crew or ensure they were implemented, and he also actively participated in/encouraged his junior officers to insubordinate behavior. The only "regular" Enterprise officer who acts like a professional in this episode is Data.
     
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  17. Herbert

    Herbert Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    And yet, the few times we do see him as captain, he does just fine.
     
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  18. Herbert

    Herbert Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    This is explained on screen several times in the first season or two. A primary responsibility of Riker as first officer is to keep his captain safe. Why is this even an argument? Yes, they toned that down in later seasons but it was there in the beginning.
     
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  19. Prof. Axe

    Prof. Axe Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sure, he does fine, but also exhibits some immaturity. In BoBW, Guinan has to come counsel him. In Gambit, Picard "dies," so Riker begins his investigation. The very first place they go, Riker beams down with the away team and is captured.
     
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  20. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Commodore Commodore

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    Because he can do what he want
     
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