Well they were preparing for a potentional war so they didn't have much time
Was Riker insubordinate during "Chain of Command"?
- Thread starter AdamNY
- Start date
Well they were preparing for a potentional war so they didn't have much time
Riker's "angst" is somewhat understandable up to a point. He really jumps the shark in that scene wear Jellico has to ask him to pilot the shuttle.
Also, it's pretty realistic for people like Geordie to complain to Riker, but it's Riker's job to make it all work. Riker should have said "I know, Geordie. It sucks, but we're gonna have to get it done" instead of "You think you got it bad?" That's undermining.
Also, it's pretty realistic for people like Geordie to complain to Riker, but it's Riker's job to make it all work. Riker should have said "I know, Geordie. It sucks, but we're gonna have to get it done" instead of "You think you got it bad?" That's undermining.
It wasn't Jellico's job to accommodate the crew of the Enterprise, on the other hand it was the Enterprise's crew job to follow Jellico's orders.
Picard I understand, but why did it have to be the other two?
I don't think Jellico thought it to be permanent, he did reorient the ship to his preferences and brought a few nick nacks. Jellico probably didn't know how long he'd be there.
Everyone, especially Jellico seem to think so.
LAFORGE: I wonder how permanent this is going to be.
RIKER: I don't know. They don't usually go through the ceremony if it's just a temporary assignment.
JELLICO: Jean-Luc, let's be candid for a moment. The Cardassians aren't going to listen to reason, and the Federation isn't going to give in to their demands. And the chances are you won't be coming back from this mission of yours. I want this ship ready for action and I don't have time to give Will Riker or anyone else a chance. And forgive me for being blunt, but the Enterprise is mine now. Well, here's hoping you beat the odds. Good hunting.
JELLICO: Schedule four battle drills, one for each shift. Run a series of simulated attacks from a Cardassian squadron. I want you to conduct the exercises personally, Will. Get it done. Oh, and get that fish out of the ready room. Data, you're with me.
Exactly.
If Jellico kind of knew he was a temporary replacement, why change things? Picard had a well functioning crew, right? Is it wise to start changing everything on a well working ship, especially if there's a risk of war? Jellico just started to change things to his personal liking. He shouldn't have, there was a crisis going on and a crew that knows exactly what to do doesn't need changes. Why start changing crew rotations and all that if Jellico was there only for one mission? Perhaps he thought it was a longer gig, he did decorate the ready room with his own stuff, maybe he wanted to stay on the Enterprise?
Like the time a handful of Ferengi who couldn't even outsmart Alexander Rozhenko took over the ship? Or, you know, that time Picard left him in command and he let the ship get destroyed by an obsolete Klingon Bird of Prey?
Old Jean Luc himself had to be counseled by Guinan a time or two. I'm also pretty sure he displayed some questionable judgments as captain but I guess that doesn't fit the narrative so it's conveniently ignored.
Or the time Riker came to the rescue in All Good Things. Or the time Riker succeeds with some "briliantly unorthodox strategy" as Picard says, in Best of Both Worlds. Picard compliments our boy Will. That's some high praise right there but again doesn't fit the narrative so can't have that.
Oh, please... Anyone can create any narrative they want for a character in 178 episodes of a TV show, including you.
If Riker had the maturity to be the captain of his own ship, he would be the captain of his own ship. He's young, ambitious, a bit flamboyant, and dead serious in season 1 & 2, perhaps seasoned in season 3, then complacent and comfortable for the rest of the show, and handled Jellico with great immaturity.
Does he? When Picard is out of commission or presumed dead, he's never taken command without a load of self-doubt & pigheaded one-track thinking. Each time, his #1 priority is to find daddy. BoBW, Guinan has to remind him of his place. In Gambit, Troi has to scold him about, & then he gets himself captured anyway. In Time's Arrow, the entire senior staff has to put him in check.
In Darmok, he's damn near useless. In Timescape, he fractured the entire space-time continuum, let Ferengis commandeer the ship in Rascals, does nothing useful at all, when Moriarty takes over the ship, ends up a protohuman in Genesis, while Picard is gone, (Admittedly not his fault) & I'm not saying he's to blame, but he is the one in command when the D is finally destroyed in Generations.
I think the only times he fielded a crisis well, with Picard out of commission, is Attached & Final Mission, and maybe Samaritan Snare. That dude is cursed in my book. lol
Frankly, Riker can only command that crew effectively, when he is not conflicted about it, like in Unification, or I guess Captain's Holiday & Liaisons maybe, when he's none the wiser, but let there be something personal going on in it for him, & he's a basket case, by my reckoning. That tells me that in order to perform, he has to have things going his way, no curveballs that hit too close to home, & that is no way to fly imho
Okay, but that only proves that he can rise to the occasion. He may not be a perfect captain but he's capable. If he were as flawed as some of you are intimating, he never would have made it to commander rank and first officer of the flag ship.
Absolutely. /thread
I'm surprised by the pretty unanimous opinion here. I just rewatched Chain of Command last week and got a different impression. Riker could have handled things better, but I saw him as being in the right. Picard's style was to lead by example, and the example he set is that Starfleet officers should do what they feel is right and moral, rather than blindly follow orders from a superior. So it makes sense that when Riker feels that Jellico is making dangerous and possibly immoral choices, he needs to stand up to that. I took is as a sign that Riker has learned a lot from Picard.
And while Riker should have been more diplomatic in his approach to disagreeing with Jellico, I have to put most of the blame for the situation on Jellico. As leader, it's his responsibility to inspire these officers to follow him. I very much believe that leaders should possess more than the ability to delegate tasks to subordinates. They have a responsibility to actually LEAD people, which means convincing those people that they are worth following. If the morale has taken a nosedive, that's on Jellico, not because of Riker. Jellico's conversation with Troi was very telling, when she clued him in that there was a morale problem and his response was basically "deal with it." That's not a leader worth following, and I would certainly have a hard time trusting him if I was in Riker's position.
Maybe it's just my millennial hate for hierarchy talking. We need the structure of hierarchy in order to stay organized and on task, but I don't think people in a position of power deserve respect just because of their position. They have to earn it like everybody else. Jellico did very little to earn it. And it really wouldn't have even taken much - a rousing introduction speech where he explains his goals and braces the crew for the difficulty ahead would probably have been enough. But it's clear he doesn't give a shit, so why should the crew feel any loyalty toward him?
I would do terrible in the military!
And while Riker should have been more diplomatic in his approach to disagreeing with Jellico, I have to put most of the blame for the situation on Jellico. As leader, it's his responsibility to inspire these officers to follow him. I very much believe that leaders should possess more than the ability to delegate tasks to subordinates. They have a responsibility to actually LEAD people, which means convincing those people that they are worth following. If the morale has taken a nosedive, that's on Jellico, not because of Riker. Jellico's conversation with Troi was very telling, when she clued him in that there was a morale problem and his response was basically "deal with it." That's not a leader worth following, and I would certainly have a hard time trusting him if I was in Riker's position.
Maybe it's just my millennial hate for hierarchy talking. We need the structure of hierarchy in order to stay organized and on task, but I don't think people in a position of power deserve respect just because of their position. They have to earn it like everybody else. Jellico did very little to earn it. And it really wouldn't have even taken much - a rousing introduction speech where he explains his goals and braces the crew for the difficulty ahead would probably have been enough. But it's clear he doesn't give a shit, so why should the crew feel any loyalty toward him?
I would do terrible in the military!
I see what you did there.
We don't know all of the nuances of the Federation rules.
As a peon in the US Army if given an unlawful order even I was permitted to refuse.
Possibly his Captain wanted to beam down into the middle of a firefight and regulations state that if, for example, eminent danger to the captain the "beam " order may be refused.
That may sound stupid, but there have been people that will engage in unlawful orders and those that will refuse. I think it takes a strong person to refuse.
