The show really starts to take form with the arrival of a certain someone in the next episode.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel - First Time Viewer
- Thread starter tomalak301
- Start date
Well Alexis Denisof (sorry for the misspelling) is in the next episode which I’m watching so we get to see Wesley again, finally.
@tomalak301 In case you didn’t know, the actor who played Doyle (Glenn Quinn) was fired, because he was constantly late for filming and didn’t know his lines. He had a long history of depression and drug abuse. He died of an overdose in 2002. Joss and co. had originally wanted Alexis Denisof at the start of Angel but he was unavailable. So they created Doyle.
I wish he didn’t have the issues that he did because I really liked Doyle.
I wish he didn’t have the issues that he did because I really liked Doyle.
I'm so relieved now that you've seen Hero lol. Every time you mentioned Doyle I'd be like uhp 
Hero is a really great episode and an unexpected payoff for the way Doyle was being built up. Unfortunately, it wasn't done for creative reasons. The actor had to be fired because of his drug issues. He OD'd a year or two later.
ETA: Ninja'd.
ETA: Ninja'd.
I had actually found out he died in 2002 but I was wondering why the character didn’t work out. I guess putting two and two together it makes sense.
I’m actually a few episodes ahead of you now so we’re kind of watching Angel at the same time, except I’ve already watched season 5.
I knew he had troubles but didn't know that was the reason for his being fired. I don't think Joss himself has ever copped to that being the reason.
Doyle was also created when Whedon & Greenwalt couldn't get Max Perlich to reprise his role of Whistler (from the Season 2 finale of Buffy) on Angel due to unavailability. When Perlich was later asked about this in an interview, he had no idea. Not only was this the first he heard about it, he was really bummed out that he lost out on that opportunity.
Apparently it was one of those cases of the agent and/or manager being asked if their client was available and the actor themselves not being given the chance to decide for themselves.
Apparently it was one of those cases of the agent and/or manager being asked if their client was available and the actor themselves not being given the chance to decide for themselves.
David Fury said in an interview that Joss had wanted to kill of a main character in Angel. He didn’t want to kill off Doyle but because Glenn Quinn had drug abuse issues, it had be done.
Oh yeah, I forgot they had wanted Whistler! That would have been interesting.
Oh yeah, I forgot they had wanted Whistler! That would have been interesting.
The official line from Whedon, Greenwalt & Minear is that the plan was always to kill off Doyle early on. Even back when he was going to be Whistler. However, there have been reports that his addiction was really impacting his work. Quinn was increasingly showing up late and forgetting lines.
He was also extremely close friends with David Boreanaz (and Lindsey actor Christian Kane) and executives at The WB and 20th Century Fox Television were reportedly afraid Quinn's illness would rub off on their main star. Because addiction is highly contagious just like the flu and chicken pox, apparently. *rolls eyes*
Greenwalt & Minear designed a trilogy of episodes to write Doyle out, while telling Quinn that if he overcame his battle with addiction they had an idea to write him back in the show later on as a Big Bad. Sadly, Quinn lost his battle two years later.
Parting Gifts
This one was ok, but the highlights were really just seeing Wesley again and learning more about the whole visions thing. All this time I thought the visions was a trait that Doyle had but it seems like they can be passed from one host to the next, almost like the Katra in Star Trek. They keep saying the Powers that Be and I wonder of those two Oracle beings are what they are talking about. It looks like those two are going to be a recurring theme in the series.
Also I remember watching season 3 of Buffy and not liking Wesley. Well he actually got a little better but I’m so glad I get to see the character grow on Angel. Nice continuity with Faith and Buffy too, even though Buffy was never really played up as a renegade.
As for the plot, it was pretty similar to the pilot with Barney being bad and Cordy in distress. Still the mythology is still building mainly because it’s season 1.
This one was ok, but the highlights were really just seeing Wesley again and learning more about the whole visions thing. All this time I thought the visions was a trait that Doyle had but it seems like they can be passed from one host to the next, almost like the Katra in Star Trek. They keep saying the Powers that Be and I wonder of those two Oracle beings are what they are talking about. It looks like those two are going to be a recurring theme in the series.
Also I remember watching season 3 of Buffy and not liking Wesley. Well he actually got a little better but I’m so glad I get to see the character grow on Angel. Nice continuity with Faith and Buffy too, even though Buffy was never really played up as a renegade.
As for the plot, it was pretty similar to the pilot with Barney being bad and Cordy in distress. Still the mythology is still building mainly because it’s season 1.
I liked the ending where Wesley is attempting to leave and keeps hanging by the doorway in hopes that Angel and Cordelia will ask him to stay, and then Angel makes them eggs and toast.
I did too. I can already see the chemistry building there.
I really love how Angel, Cordy and Wesley interacted. The roque demon hunter is my favorite character of the Bufy/Angel verse. 
I really love how Angel, Cordy and Wesley interacted. The roque demon hunter is my favorite character of the Bufy/Angel verse.
I can’t wait to see how Wesley develops. He was such an annoying character when he was introduced but I actually smiled when he appeared. I also loved how he talked about being fired and being a fraud. He could provide some levity to this series.
Whedon pitched Wesley to the Buffy: Season 3 writers as "a guy who thinks he's Sean Connery when he's actually George Lazenby."
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