Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel - First Time Viewer

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by tomalak301, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. grendelsbayne

    grendelsbayne Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2013
    Location:
    Netherlands
    For the record, Angel really does have season arcs. And there are specific characters that can easily be viewed as big bads.

    It's just that Wolfram and Heart are an overarching concept and season 1 in particular is more episodic than any other season (or any season of Buffy for that matter), so it doesn't have as much build-up to the finale.
     
    OCD Geek likes this.
  2. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Rm With A Vu

    I think this might be my favorite episode of Angel so far, even though I thought there was maybe too much going on. The story with Doyle and his past probably should have worked as it's own story, while this one could have been entirely about Cordelia. What I liked about it though was it finally focused on our characters' lives rather than the damsel in distress. Cordelia finally moves out of the trashing apartment into a new one, which was haunted, and she learned to find the bitch inside her again. I love bitchy Cordelia, mainly because she's so fun and Carpenter shines when she gets to play that part. The story about the haunted apartment was sad though. You mean to tell me the mother buried her son behind concrete? That's tough. Cordy living with a ghost roommate could be fun though.

    As for Doyle's story, there wasn't much there other than Demon wants to get what he's owed. I think it does a better job setting up Doyle as a character with a sketchy past who has visions from higher powers. Still not entirely sure about him yet, but at least it looked like they started his arc in this episode. That's basically what a first season should do.

    Did this episode do dig at Voyager? At the beginning of the episode Cordelia talks about not getting an acting gig because they hired a blonde in a catsuit. My first thought was Seven of Nine.
     
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Do you remember Doyle from the sitcom Roseanne?
     
  4. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I never saw Roseanne, either incarnation.
     
    Guy Gardener likes this.
  5. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2003
    Location:
    Tacoma, Washington
    You're still a few episodes away, but I want to mention it while I'm thinking about it-- when you get to the episode titled "She" make sure you watch the credits to the very end. I will say no more.
     
  6. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2001
    Location:
    Mr. Adventure
    Wasn’t SMG the other Becky?




    maybe not...
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Sarah Chalk from Scrubs.

    In the reboot Sarah was the rich lady trying to hire original Becky as a surrogate.
     
    OCD Geek likes this.
  8. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Sense & Sensitivity

    Decent Kate episode, even though it bordered on a little dumb and childish. I was a little confused by Cordelia and Doyle weren't under the senstitivity spell though. Also, Kate's dad was an asshole at the end. She wants one bit of positivity from her father and he can't even do that. This is all about sensitivity, then why did it feel like the precinct was filled with whiners. Despite all that though, it was somewhat fun.
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    To show how evolved our heroes are, we compare them to pure evil, usually or in this case "real men" from the 1950s.

    The authors of the story, Drawing from their experience, are much older than the characters in this 15 year old TV show.
     
    tomalak301 likes this.
  10. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2001
    Location:
    Mr. Adventure
    Just a dumb joke which I figure only I would find funny, guess I wasn't as obvious as I thought.
     
    theenglish likes this.
  11. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Bachelor Party

    Another good episode for Doyle. We meet his ex-wife and demon boyfriend who have some pretty cannibalistic rituals. It's fun getting more into his past, and we even got some further development with Cordy not being attracted to rich guys anymore. I'm not a shipper, but if Doyle and Cordy don't get together by the end of the season, it will be for nothing. As for the crossover, it took them all of 4 seconds to set that up. And the Buffy episode ends with Xander spilling the beans so now I'm deciding to see the fall out of that finally.
     
  12. OCD Geek

    OCD Geek Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Location:
    New Jersey
    I love this episode. It pretty much sets up the "demons are people too" aspect of Angel. Sure, there are still a lot of evil demons throughout the series. But were also meet many beyond Angel and Doyle that are morally ambiguous, normal everyday folks or even straight up superheroes in their own right. It makes the Buffyverse feel richer and more complex.
     
  13. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    We saw that in Buffy to an extent too. I mean Clem seemed like a regular guy, even though he was kinda demon-ish.
     
  14. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2003
    Location:
    Tacoma, Washington
    But Clem won't debut on Buffy for a couple of years yet. The whole "demons are people too" thing started here.
     
    tomalak301 and OCD Geek like this.
  15. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I Will Remember You

    You know what is great about watching Angel, other than seeing Cordy, and Faith, and Wesley again? It's knowing that there are a few episodes with Sarah Michelle Gellar as Buffy that I have not seen, so it will be like watching new episodes of Buffy despite being done with the series. This episode was the what if scenario. What if you can spend a day of happiness with the love of your life even though you know it wouldn't be able to work in the long run. Here Angel and Buffy battle a demon which turns Angel mortal, and he and Buffy are able to spend one day of ultimate happiness together. Unfortunately this is Angel and we get some ominous messages about end of days and, well, Buffy has to go be the Slayer.

    This was a fine episode kind of showing the fall out from the end of Season 3. We even got some Cordy/Buffy scenes which I appreciated (I could have always used some more though) and I always love the chemistry between Gellar and Boreanez. This was a nice way to end the crossover, even if it might have gotten a little too smultzy for me at points. Still, seeing Buffy on Angel put a big smile on my face and that is a very good thing.

    @Turtletrekker

    That is true. I do love in this universe it's LA with demons and so far no one is judging. It does make the Buffy-verse more complex.
     
    OCD Geek and Turtletrekker like this.
  16. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2003
    Location:
    Tacoma, Washington
    Just wait 'til you see the karaoke bar.
     
    OCD Geek and tomalak301 like this.
  17. Mr Soak

    Mr Soak Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2001
    Location:
    Mr Soak, [Redacted]
    The next episode resolves this, but maybe not how you expect.

    EDIT - would this be considered a spoiler?

    EDIT 2 - Spoiler tagged.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  18. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    A little bit
     
  19. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Location:
    I said out, dammit!
    Angel and sunlight: Joss (or Tim or whoever) said they liked to have Angel pictured with sunlight behind him, or somewhere on screen with him, just to emphasize that no matter how he tries for redemption, he can never go into that light.

    or something like that - it's been a while. :)
     
    tomalak301 likes this.
  20. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Hero

    That episode was freaking ballsy. 9 episodes into a brand new series and they killed off a main character. I did not expect that and I’m actually legit shocked. I mean I know they were focusing heavily on Doyle lately but it was the beginning of a series and they needed to lay the groundwork. To kill him off 9 episodes in was gutsy.

    As for the rest of the episode, I’ve learned a few things about watching Angel from this thread but now I’m starting to question it. For one, this season feels more arc based than season 1 of Buffy. I mean we had Doyle and this episode picks right up from Angel sacrificing Buffy to fight the good fight. We also have the issue of Cordelia trying to get some money from this job and if it would even stay afloat. To say this season is the most episodic of the Buffy universe after this episode is something I would question. Also this episode did a much better job setting up the whole Demons in LA better than Bachelor Party did. That seemed to be played for Comedy. This was much more serious but nuanced.

    This season really is turning around after the rough start.
     
    OCD Geek and Turtletrekker like this.