Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel - First Time Viewer

[tomalak301]

Wild at Heart

Beer Bad was so bad and the Sharks were so depressing I couldn't end the night on that kind of note. I figured anything had to be better than what I just watched, and here comes the next episode to remind me of the great things this series has to offer. We start with Happy Buffy and a trademark pun (Which I really loved but I kinda forgot the quote) and then Spike shows up and is taken away by those hooded figures we saw in the first episode. Considering the title of the next episode, I think I'm going to learn all about the real big bads of this season. Also, it was good to see this episode tonight because tomorrow is a 3+ episode (2 Buffy, 1 Angel) night with the next one and then the Crossover Event.

What really shined in this episode though was what this show really excels at, The personal relationships with our characters. The stuff Willow goes through here is really really sad and you can't help but feel like you want to give her a hug and say everything is going to be Ok. I liked this episode as a follow up to Season 2's Phases (A lot of episodes this season are direct follow ups to Season 2, which is interesting) and what it means for Oz being the warewolf. I liked the Veruca character and the build up to this episode was subtle, but well done. This was a nice way to write Oz out of the series for a while (This is about the time Austin Powers was coming out, even though I think SWSM came out in 1999, so maybe he was going to film the third movie around this time). Also, Just Buffy's wittism washed the stench from the last episode out. This was Classic Gellar, with the pun at the beginning of the episode and protecting her friend later on. Just seeing them together is emotionally impactful, a credit to the character development a little over 3 seasons in now.

This is probably my favorite episode of season 4 so far, and it was a nice episode to end the night on.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Useless trivia, but the real band behind Shy was called T.H.C. The bassist, Sarah Folkman, did the actual vocals. They only had two albums and a handful of other singles. I have their second album, Adagio, which all the songs featured on Buffy (and one on Angel) are from. The whole album is pretty great.

Similarly, the song used during the montage in "Harsh Light" was Dollshead's "It's Over, It's Under." They only had one album Frozen Charlotte, but it's utterly fantastic. And half the songs on there were used in various media, be it other shows, films, or videogames.

Whedon pretty much gave Hannigan dominion over the music used in the show ever since it was her idea to use Nerf Herder for the theme and she had connections in the indie scene. And she was a huge trip-hop fan at the time and thus Buff and Will were supposed to be too. Hence Buffy's line about Kathy, "Soon she'll be trip-hopping away..."

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Useless trivia, but the real band behind Shy was called T.H.C. The bassist, Sarah Folkman, did the actual vocals. They only had two albums and a handful of other singles. I have their second album, Adagio, which all the songs featured on Buffy (and one on Angel) are from. The whole album is pretty great.

Similarly, the song used during the montage in "Harsh Light" was Dollshead's "It's Over, It's Under." They only had one album Frozen Charlotte, but it's utterly fantastic. And half the songs on there were used in various media, be it other shows, films, or videogames.

Whedon pretty much gave Hannigan dominion over the music used in the show ever since it was her idea to use Nerf Herder for the theme and she had connections in the indie scene. And she was a huge trip-hop fan at the time and thus Buff and Will were supposed to be too. Hence Buffy's line about Kathy, "Soon she'll be trip-hopping away..."

Buffy the Vampire Slayer made me a huge K's Choice fan. They're basically my favorite band. Although, while the stuff they had in the show was fun and trippy, their best songs were never in an episode.

Also, the song from 'Conversations with Dead People' is still in my head years later. And the song from Angel's 'A hole in the World'.

 

[.:: TSN ::.]

Wild at Heart

Beer Bad was so bad and the Sharks were so depressing I couldn't end the night on that kind of note. I figured anything had to be better than what I just watched, and here comes the next episode to remind me of the great things this series has to offer. We start with Happy Buffy and a trademark pun (Which I really loved but I kinda forgot the quote) and then Spike shows up and is taken away by those hooded figures we saw in the first episode. Considering the title of the next episode, I think I'm going to learn all about the real big bads of this season. Also, it was good to see this episode tonight because tomorrow is a 3+ episode (2 Buffy, 1 Angel) night with the next one and then the Crossover Event.

...

I really would not watch those Angel episodes without having watched all episodes before them. It will just spoil Angel for you. There is a continuing story even though a lot of the first season episodes are standalones.

I would rather do it the other way around. Watch Buffy without Angel straight to the end and then when watching Angel re-watch the Buffy episodes in question.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Also, the song from 'Conversations with Dead People' is still in my head years later. And the song from Angel's 'A hole in the World'.

The Angie Heart song? Yeah. It's fantastic. If I remember that correctly, she wrote that specifically for the episode because the show had been so good to her career outside Australia. Splendid did two Bronze performances and then two of her solo songs were used as background 'radio' noise.

She also did some harmonies in OMWF.

 

[tomalak301]

I really would not watch those Angel episodes without having watched all episodes before them. It will just spoil Angel for you. There is a continuing story even though a lot of the first season episodes are standalones.

I would rather do it the other way around. Watch Buffy without Angel straight to the end and then when watching Angel re-watch the Buffy episodes in question.

You're the first person to say don't worry about Angel, just stick with Buffy. I was going to treat those Angel episodes like I treat the DC crossovers of the shows I don't watch (Supergirl or Legends). I have seen the first three episodes of Angel but I decided to stick with one series and then go to the other. Like I said a few days ago, it might be easier watching two episodes and then waiting a week. When you're watching multiple episodes in a close period of time, that's different and that's where it can get overwhelming.

I think what I will do is watch Pangs and if I feel the need to see the Angel episode, I will. If not, I will hold off until I actually start watching Angel straight through.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

The Angie Heart song? Yeah. It's fantastic. If I remember that correctly, she wrote that specifically for the episode because the show had been so good to her career outside Australia. Splendid did two Bronze performances and then two of her solo songs were used as background 'radio' noise.

She also did some harmonies in OMWF.

Yeah, 'Blue'.

Though, to be fair, the mariachi song is still in my head, too. That was some of the scariest stuff the show ever did.

 

[CorporalClegg]

You're the first person to say don't worry about Angel, just stick with Buffy.

Hello, Chopped Liver here.

 

[tomalak301]

I don't know. To me, it still makes more sense to watch each on its own. Aside from the flashback episodes @Turtletrekker mentions, there just isn't enough weight to the crossovers that can't be chalked up to exposition white noise. And even those flashback episodes, work fine on their own.

On the other hand, unless you're following some very carefully thought out viewing guide (And none I've seen are close to perfect.), then there will be times where switching back and forth gets disruptive. I think the most obvious example of this is the last arcs of 5&2. Both are so fucking good that you'd really be doing yourself a disservice by not digesting each on its own. I see it as a luxury being in an era where you can do that.

Hello, Chopped Liver here.

Ok, second person.

I'm almost thinking going Straight shot on both series. It makes it more easy to focus that way.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Not a bad idea. I'm more of a fan of Angel than I am of Buffy but the crossovers between the shows almost never matter in terms of what happens on the other show. "I Will Remember You" has absolutely no bearing on anything that happens on Buffy.

The only time that it even kinda matters is in the "Sanctuary"/"The Yoko Factor" crossover. And even then, it's more about tying up some loose ends from the Angel episode that have absolutely nothing to do with the larger Buffy story. (Still, it's kinda awkward because there's nothing in the preceding Buffy episode to indicate that Buffy is going to visit Angel, yet the next episode has several scenes following up on said visit.)

Frankly, while Angel occasionally makes in-jokes about stuff that happened on Buffy, Buffy seems barely aware that Angel even has his own show.

Spoiler: Minor spoilers for something that DOESN'T happen on Buffy

Sadly, no Angel characters other than Angel himself ever appear on Buffy. Even characters that originated on Buffy, like Cordelia and Wesley, were never seen on Buffy again.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer made me a huge K's Choice fan. They're basically my favorite band. Although, while the stuff they had in the show was fun and trippy, their best songs were never in an episode.

Agreed. I love K's Choice. "Virgin State of Mind" is a great song but my favorite of theirs is probably "Cocoon Crash." They may not be my absolute favorite band but they were a good gateway drug to get me into the Cardigans. (Never got a chance to see either of them live, mostly on account of both of them seeming to rarely tour outside of Northern Europe.)

 

[CorporalClegg]

Speaking of Cardigans, Buffy might have been the only 90s high school show Favorite Game wasn't used.

 

[Turtletrekker]

You certainly won't miss out on anything story-wise on the Buffy show if you don't watch I Will Remember You. But Pangs definitely ends on a more personal character beat that you may or may not want to follow up on.

 

[tomalak301]

Frankly, while Angel occasionally makes in-jokes about stuff that happened on Buffy, Buffy seems barely aware that Angel even has his own show.

I said this when I started season 4, and I think it answers to your point. So far the best example of this is Buffy (The Series) is almost treating Cordelia like she didn't exist in the first 3 seasons. Granted I think she was mentioned once so far, but here is this character who was part of the gang from Season 2 onwards, actually contributed, and it feels like the series has already forgotten about her. That's why I saw the Angel premiere after I saw the Season 4 premiere. It felt really weird that Angel seemed to have a better transition from the events of Season 3 than Buffy did, even though on Buffy it was all about starting College. When I saw the second episode of the respective seasons, I actually started to question why I was doing the whole switching thing because neither episode was related to another. Then when I saw the third episode of Angel and they pretty much recapped what happened on the Buffy episode, I'm like, do I really need to do this whole switching thing. It feels like the shows do a good job getting people up to speed. Basically, the only thing I wish was different regarding both shows to open up this current season was handle Cordelia's transition better.

 

[JD]

I'm not really into comics. I know there is a Season 8 comic, but I've never actually read a comic anything ever.

Actually there's a lot more than just Season 8. First they did a whole bunch that came out during the show, but as far as I know the only ones of those that are actually considered canon are a couple of anthologies focused on vampires and slayers throughout history.
Season 8 was the start of the canon post TV comics, and they actually continued on through to Season 12. Every 24 issues or so they would do a finale and then come back with a new "season".
Along with Buffy there is also a series of Angel comics that pick up on the kinda cliffhanger ending of the last episode.
All of these comics are considered canon since the stories all come directly from Whedon, he even wrote several issues of each "season" of Buffy himself. The Angel comics did continue on after his storyline ended, but those aren't considered canon.
I know you said you don't usually do comics, but as much as you seem to be enjoy the show, I would highly recommend checking them out. I only read the first three collections of Buffy Season 8, but I really enjoyed them.
I am a bit annoyed though, because the license recently moved companies, and they pulled the digital versions but the new reboot comics from t. Most of the paper versions are still available on Amazon though.

This was a nice way to write Oz out of the series for a while (This is about the time Austin Powers was coming out, even though I think SWSM came out in 1999, so maybe he was going to film the third movie around this time).

I hope this isn't considered a spoiler, but I just want to warn that we only see Oz a couple more times this season, and then that is it until he pops up in a couple arcs in the Season 8 comics.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Although it's not how I would do a re-watch, one point in favor of jumping from show to show by episode is that how they were originally presented, if you take my meaning. The Buffyverse was originally experienced by the fans jumping from show to show each week. Again, I've already done it that way so I don't need to do it again. But it's something to take into consideration.

 

[tomalak301]

Actually there's a lot more than just Season 8. First they did a whole bunch that came out during the show, but as far as I know the only ones of those that are actually considered canon are a couple of anthologies focused on vampires and slayers throughout history.
Season 8 was the start of the canon post TV comics, and they actually continued on through to Season 12. Every 24 issues or so they would do a finale and then come back with a new "season".
Along with Buffy there is also a series of Angel comics that pick up on the kinda cliffhanger ending of the last episode.
All of these comics are considered canon since the stories all come directly from Whedon, he even wrote several issues of each "season" of Buffy himself. The Angel comics did continue on after his storyline ended, but those aren't considered canon.
I know you said you don't usually do comics, but as much as you seem to be enjoy the show, I would highly recommend checking them out. I only read the first three collections of Buffy Season 8, but I really enjoyed them.
I am a bit annoyed though, because the license recently moved companies, and they pulled the digital versions but the new reboot comics from t. Most of the paper versions are still available on Amazon though.

I hope this isn't considered a spoiler, but I just want to warn that we only see Oz a couple more times this season, and then that is it until he pops up in a couple arcs in the Season 8 comics.

I've kind of read episode synopsises and no it's not a spoiler. This is the same actor who actually made a name for himself playing Doctor Evil's Son, even though I don't know the real reason why Green was written out. I just know this was around the time Austin Powers was quite popular.

I was just checking his IMDB. I didn't know he was in Batman Beyond and of course Family Guy. Guy was busy around this time (And still is apparently).

 

[tomalak301]

Although it's not how I would do a re-watch, one point in favor of jumping from show to show by episode is that how they were originally presented, if you take my meaning. The Buffyverse was originally experienced by the fans jumping from show to show each week. Again, I've already done it that way so I don't need to do it again. But it's something to take into consideration.

But in fairness that's 2 episodes a week, rather than 2 episodes a night. You have more time to digest what you watched rather than already having the entire series at your disposal and fighting the urge to see what happens next only to be told you have to follow another series at the same time. I know that sounds petty but That's kind of how I feel as a first time viewer.

 

[Turtletrekker]

That's not petty at all. It's your viewing experience and you should do it in the way that you feel will be the most entertaining for you.

 

[JD]

Instead of going all the way through one and then all the way through the other, why not just go season by season? That's how I usually do this kind of stuff, each time I finish a season of one show, I replace it with another, and then after that show and maybe one or two others, I go back and watch another season of the first, then a season of the second, ect. If the season ends on a cliffhanger I will usually watch the resolution of the cliffhanger before I move on.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Instead of going all the way through one and then all the way through the other, why not just go season by season? That's how I usually do this kind of stuff, each time I finish a season of one show, I replace it with another, and then after that show and maybe one or two others, I go back and watch another season of the first, then a season of the second, ect. If the season ends on a cliffhanger I will usually watch the resolution of the cliffhanger before I move on.

This is how I would do a re-watch as well, but a first time viewer would have to be wary as to which seasons to watch first. Definitely Buffy season 5 before Angel season 2 and then Angel season 5 before Buffy season 7.