No Wolf 359, No Voyager?

[Tom]

I brought this up in the TNG section talking about Shelby.

Because of the Borg attack and 40 ships destroyed at Wolf 359. Starfleet created a task force to fast track the building of at least 40 (or more) ships to replace the ships that were lost. They also had to do some mass promoting to get new captains and commanders for those ships. Given that Voyager is a new ship, about 3 to 4 years after TNG:BOBW, I would assume that Voyager was one of the new 'replacement' ships and Janeway was fast tracked to Captain. So there for, no Wolf 359 attack, no Voyager, and Janeway would be a commander (or LT CMDR) on another ship somewhere?

I would love to seen an episode were some how ( some time technobabble ) Voyager stops the Borg from invading the Federation (in BOBW) and thus radically changes the time line. Instead of Voyager chasing the Marquis in Caretaker it may have been another more older ship that was originally destroyed in wolf 359. Maybe Janeway is a commander on the ship by pure coincidence, and she somehow realizes the timeline is wrong, as the ship is stuck in the Delta quadrant . Would make for an interesting episode.

 

[MacLeod]

I thought it was more the following classes that were designed to combat the Borg Threat:

Akira
Defiant
Norway
Streamrunner

Whilst the Intrepid class design was more to do with the events seen in TNGs "Force of Nature"

 

[Markonian]

I like both your ideas.

Maybe in such a timeline Voyager was developed (“Force of Nature”) but technologically less advanced - ergo we get the USS Voyager NX-73606! This would be almost-final model that we’ve seen as study model and Eaglemoss bonus issue.
A non-licensed RPG suggests that may even what the Bradbury class looks like.

 

[at Quark's]

So, in a way, the Borg now have defeated themselves twice. Not only by the Borg travel to past-attract Ent-D who ensure First Contact takes place- route, but also by the Wolf 359 - Voyager gets built- Voyager destroys Borg transwarp hub in DQ -route.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Perhaps a different ship, perhaps a different captain, but someone would have been sent into the DMZ to pursue terrorists who were former Federation citizens, ripe to be abducted by the Caretaker.

 

[Finn]

I think this is one of those"overthinking this" threads. They wouldn't have put a Captain who sees herself as a scientist first, on a ship intended to fight the Borg. Also, it is more than probable that the Intrepid Class was already in development prior to Wolf 359, with at least the Intrepid and Voyager sitting in dry dock...

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Starfleet will always be designing and building new classes of ships, so I suspect the Intrepid-Class was always on the books, though after Wolf 359 then she may have had tactical systems revamped and added too--she did after all get a new subspace-friendly warp drive installed just a year after the damage that was caused by conventional drives was discovered, so modifying designs can be done at different stages of development or construction.

 

[Herbert]

It's possible that Voyager was a post-Wolf 359 replacement ship. Who really knows one way or the other and who gives a rat's behind? Given that Voyager was a prototype with new tech, I think it gets built regardless of what happened at Wolf 359.

I think this is one of those"overthinking this" threads.

That's pretty much this entire message board.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

I thought it was more the following classes that were designed to combat the Borg Threat:

Akira
Defiant
Norway
Steamrunner

Whilst the Intrepid class design was more to do with the events seen in TNGs "Force of Nature"

I've always thought that the Intrepid-class was an "improved drive platform", the Prometheus-class as a follow-on for quick strike capability.

I'm not entirely convinced that the Akira-class was a new 'anti-Borg platform' in the sense that the Defiant, Prometheus and to a lesser Sovereign's are. IMO it's more likely that the Akira is a mid-century Miranda-replacement that was big enough to upgrade to modern 'cruiser' standards in the same way that some of the block II and III Excelsiors were.

 

[MacLeod]

I've always thought that the Intrepid-class was an "improved drive platform", the Prometheus-class as a follow-on for quick strike capability.

I'm not entirely convinced that the Akira-class was a new 'anti-Borg platform' in the sense that the Defiant, Prometheus and to a lesser Sovereign's are. IMO it's more likely that the Akira is a mid-century Miranda-replacement that was big enough to upgrade to modern 'cruiser' standards in the same way that some of the block II and III Excelsiors were.

Wouldn't the Nebula Class also be a contender for the 24th century version of the Miranda Class?

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Wouldn't the Nebula Class also be a contender for the 24th century version of the Miranda Class?

Sorta.

One of the main USPs of the Miranda-class from my PoV is it's large cargo and shuttlebay volume - with similar firepower - relative to total size especially compared to the Connie, which appears to be somewhat the case with the Akiras, but the Nebula is (probably) inferior to the Galaxy in that respect.

 

[MacLeod]

Sure but just like the Miranda Class shares a design aesthetic with the Constitution Class, the Nebula shares a design Aesthetic with the Galaxy Class, the Akira shares more of a design aesthetic with the Sovereign Class.

 

[Dukhat]

There's no canonical information about any ship classes that were built post-Wolf-359 that were meant to be 'replacements' for ships destroyed at that battle, or ships designed to better combat the Borg, other than the Defiant class (and even that project was put on hold until the threat of the Dominion.) As a matter of fact, by the time of the Dominion War, most of the fleet scenes consisted of old classes like the Excelsior and Miranda, classes that were already in production before Wolf 359 like the Galaxy and Nebula, and three classes seen in FC, the Akira, Steamrunner and Saber, all of which had low 5XXXX and 6XXXX registries, which chronologically speaking would place their build dates at least a decade of more before Wolf 359. As for newer classes such as the Intrepid, Nova, and Sovereign, no mention in dialogue is ever made that stated that these ship types were meant to be replacements for ships lost at Wolf 359.

 

[flandry84]

I always thought the Intrepid class to be primarily an exploratory vessel.(Yeah,all Starfleet is exploratory).But primarily a scientific vessel and a strange ship to be sending after the Maquis.After all hadn’t Ransome’s ship,whose name escapes me,disappeared in this region of space?
Edit: USS Equinox.

 

[NewHeavensNewEarth]

I brought this up in the TNG section talking about Shelby.

Because of the Borg attack and 40 ships destroyed at Wolf 359. Starfleet created a task force to fast track the building of at least 40 (or more) ships to replace the ships that were lost. They also had to do some mass promoting to get new captains and commanders for those ships. Given that Voyager is a new ship, about 3 to 4 years after TNG:BOBW, I would assume that Voyager was one of the new 'replacement' ships and Janeway was fast tracked to Captain. So there for, no Wolf 359 attack, no Voyager, and Janeway would be a commander (or LT CMDR) on another ship somewhere?

I would love to seen an episode were some how ( some time technobabble ) Voyager stops the Borg from invading the Federation (in BOBW) and thus radically changes the time line. Instead of Voyager chasing the Marquis in Caretaker it may have been another more older ship that was originally destroyed in wolf 359. Maybe Janeway is a commander on the ship by pure coincidence, and she somehow realizes the timeline is wrong, as the ship is stuck in the Delta quadrant . Would make for an interesting episode.

I'll do you one better, Tom. No Voyager, no Wolf 359. The time rift that brought future tech to the '90s (and Sarah Silverman) also led to the technological leaps that eventually made Earth an appealing target for the Borg.

Bam! How's that for overthinking?

 

[USS Excelsior]

Or it could be a new type of ship that they would have developed anyway with gel packs, but they ultimately got rejected since they tend to get infected.

 

[MacLeod]

Or it could be a new type of ship that they would have developed anyway with gel packs, but they ultimately got rejected since they tend to get infected.

Added to List of banned substances on Star ships fitted with bio-neural gel packs

Cheese.

 

[TommyR01D]

The Intrepid class design was more to do with the events seen in TNGs "Force of Nature"

That is often given as the reason for Voyager's nacelles moving - supposedly this somehow negates the subspace-damaging effect.

Unfortunately we have a problem of chronology - in Force of Nature itself, about a year before Caretaker, we have a subplot about Geordi's competition with a new ship called the Intrepid. That ship is not seen, but given the time frame it can only be the first of the Intrepid class, and therefore Voyager's sister. We are left to infer that the class already existed and had at least one example operational in 2370, but by 2371 the propulsion system had been significantly redesigned from the original.

 

[tomswift2002]

That is often given as the reason for Voyager's nacelles moving - supposedly this somehow negates the subspace-damaging effect.

Unfortunately we have a problem of chronology - in Force of Nature itself, about a year before Caretaker, we have a subplot about Geordi's competition with a new ship called the Intrepid. That ship is not seen, but given the time frame it can only be the first of the Intrepid class, and therefore Voyager's sister. We are left to infer that the class already existed and had at least one example operational in 2370, but by 2371 the propulsion system had been significantly redesigned from the original.

Not really. Considering that the Intrepid-Class Intrepid would’ve only been in dry dock still being built at the time, there’s nothing to suggest that an older Excelsior or other class Intrepid couldn’t have been in service. (As of 2346 there appears to have been an Excelsior-class Intrepid in service as Worf’s stepfather was serving on an Intrepid and an Excelsior-class at that time, so it’s possible that by 2370 the ship was still in service and was maybe slated for retirement in 2371 as the Excelsiors were long-lived Ships).

Technically, the 24th century wasn’t Starfleet or Earth Starfleet’s first Intrepid class. There was an Intrepid Class in the 2150’s.

 

[Timo]

It would be fitting for the chief engineer of the Federation Flagship to compete with the chief engineer of the Newest Starfleet Technological Marvel. Would LaForge get so worked up about defeating an old tub?

Then again, the competition is in the field of efficiency rather than absolute performance, which means anybody can attend - no superships needed. And the competition really is between LaForge and an old pal he is in an obvious longterm rivalry with, not between the ships. Commander Kaplan could be flying a Daedalus for all LaForge cares, then.

As for the putative earlier "Intrepid Class", that's from the novels only. The ENT episodes themselves never establish the class in which the starship Intrepid commanded by Captain Ramirez might have belonged. The unseen but mentioned Triton or Neptune classes, perhaps?

But as you say, it's a different organization altogether, not the Starfleet of our heroes.

Timo Saloniemi