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Spoilers DSC Starships and Technology - Season Two Thread

Agreed - taking the silhouettes literally would needlessly dilute the diversity of this pseudo-universe. Many other graphics have generic rather than specific symbols for ships or shuttles, notably in the TNG era.

So the Eagle is actually a Texas class light cruiser from the old SFB games. :devil:

Timo Saloniemi
 
DSC is a good forum for doing some long-awaited mixing. We finally have a broad combination of ship designs from the 1960s, 1970s and 2010s there (although TNG and DS9 already did a bit of 1980s/1990s mixing), with control interfaces from 1960s and 2010s merrily coexisting. In-universe, we may well be seeing different decades side by side, too. But none of it is fully explicit yet - nobody has stated onscreen the era from which the cylinder nacelles or the lateral vector transporters or the jelly button interfaces would hail, or the day these became outdated, or the exact selection of gear that is brand new for the 2250s. And perhaps that's for the best. But I hope DSC won't be limited to showing "DSC era" stuff.

I don't think that that's particularly likely (at most, we might see some more Constitution-family designs like Mirandas and the FJ configurations). The people making the show don't seem to be big tech-heads, nor do they seem to have delegated the "make everything make sense" job to anyone behind-the-scenes the way the way the 90s shows had a stable of Treknology experts, so I can't see them spending the money to recreate the Kelvin-family designs even though they logically should be around, in some form, at some scale, rather than using what they've got or making something all-new. I don't think they've ever used anything from the movies, or even earlier productions, as a time-saver or reference, whether design, graphic, or prop, aside from a handful of icons. They don't even use the right (by which I mean, post-TMP and thus wrong) font for the ship markings, just straight, unoutlined Microgramma without the shortened "1" that doesn't look so much like a "7," or the tails on the "D" so it doesn't look like an "O" or "0."

Personally, I don't see a problem with the three nacelle designs we've seen on DSC being contemporaries. They had multiple engine-styles in the TNG era side-by-side, and it never seemed that, say, the big round nacelle cap was necessarily more or less advanced than the small triangular red windows on other ships. Some ships get big flat nacelles like the Shenzhou, some get cylindrical nacelles with boxy casings around them like the majority of the DSC ships, and some have naked cylindrical nacelles, like the Enterprise. They all probably have merits or drawbacks, and are chosen based on the mission profile of an individual class, if not an individual ship.

Of course, that'd be a lot easier to sell if we'd actually see all the different kinds of ships Starfleet has together, instead of like always going with like. It reminds me a bit of the Halo franchise, where everything was redesigned to a greater or lesser extent for every game (and typically explained in the lore as being different models of the same line to rationalize the differences in look and performance), but they'd keep things simple, and rarely to never have two ships or weapons or suits that'd serve the same purpose show up at the the same time. The sort of verisimilitude of seeing, say, two different classes of frigate side-by-side would be left to books, comics, direct-to-web short films, tabletop wargames, what have you.
 
Lots to unpick this week!

Enterprise has repair drones (called DOT7s)... I can't help but think that written down it looks like DOTY or Dotty which rhymes with a future Enterprise engineer....

Enterprise and Discovery can field about 200 fighters/modded shuttles (assuming Georgiou isn't exaggerating) but only have a combined crew of 400 so a LOT of peeps have flight combat training or some of them are drone ships.

Standard issue blast doors are tough enough to stop a photon torpedo blowing apart four decks. And both Enterprise and Discovery's shields put up with a HELLISH pounding here that should have seen them garroted like the Enterprise in Beyond. OK, I get that Control is sparing the Discovery so it can get the Sphere data, but Enterprise should be dead meat....

That Klingon Cleave ship is fricking HUGE! I never got a sense of it n the Battle Of The Binaries but it really shows up here.

L'rell and Tyler seem to refer to D7s (plural) as D7 ("order the D7 to target the drone ships!") since there's more than one present.

Would converting the whole of the Golden Gate bridge to solar-panels be worth it given Earth has fusion power at that point? Or is this another historical holdover (perhaps the Federation wants to make a point? "Here's a piece of construction designed for use by damaging fossil fuel vehicles, now converted to eco-friendly power as a symbol of how we realised we needed to progress! Now, a class on the political need for stripmining planets for dilithium..."?)
 
I'd be surprised if small-craft operations isn't drilled into every single cadet at the Academy campuses across the Federation.
 
And both Enterprise and Discovery's shields put up with a HELLISH pounding here that should have seen them garroted like the Enterprise in Beyond. OK, I get that Control is sparing the Discovery so it can get the Sphere data, but Enterprise should be dead meat....

In Beyond, the drone fighters were able to slip past the Enterprise's shields, and their first target was the main deflector dish, bringing down the whole system and keeping the crew from remodulating or whatever to repel them, so the entire battle was fought shieldless (as is Star Trek movie tradition).
 
In Beyond, the drone fighters were able to slip past the Enterprise's shields, and their first target was the main deflector dish, bringing down the whole system and keeping the crew from remodulating or whatever to repel them, so the entire battle was fought shieldless (as is Star Trek movie tradition).


Well, yes, but my general point is that the pounding we see the ships take here is WAY beyond what would be "Shields down! Hull integrity at 65%!" in a TNG/VOY era ep.

DEWline said:
I'd be surprised if small-craft operations isn't drilled into every single cadet at the Academy campuses across the Federation.

Operation, maybe - gotta teach the cadets basic starship flight control sure - but combat ops? Most adults can drive a car. They aren't rated for the full Jason Statham.
 
The 200 ships thing didn't bother me - only a handful seemed to be proper shuttles, the rest were those smaller drones which we'd seen before. Number One said she'd requisitioned a load of those fighters last week, so they aren't part of the Enterprise's regular complement.

I loved that shields actually protected the ships for once. Makes a change from the usual Trek battles.

I did think the D7 thing was probably the result of the script indicating the singular prototype, and the VFX guys throwing in a bunch of them instead.
 
They built a number of D7 already? Are they using temporal shipbuilding?
You'd be surprised how much re-designing a ship class from the ground up with modern day design principles can shorten the manufacturing / certification time.

The old Klingon Ships with it's Gothic design looks like a HORRENDOUSLY in-efficient design for mass production.
 
There are 5 women seen in Enterprise uniforms on the bridge:
- Amin (goldshirt)
- Mann (redshirt), light brown hair next to the bald science officer
- Number One
- An African-American woman in a blueshirt
-And finally, a redshirt next to Lt. Nicola (he's the male communications officer, per credits... confusing choice of name, granted). That redshirt is probably Colt. I can't get a good look at her, ATM, to confirm that she's Dickinson. There's one okay image of her as Pike enters the bridge, that confirms she's light-skinned and dark-haired at least.

If it isn't Dickinson, then "Colt" might not be on the bridge (in that opening scene). She could be in one of the corridor scenes, a later scene, or maybe her scene got cut.

So, we've gotten an answer on the Colt question, and it's... surprising. Yeoman Colt is the spiky science-division alien.

I'm so over this show.
 
"She has unusually strong feminine drives and is the headbutt champion across three sectors."
 
Actually reading that interview it sounds like Michelle Paradise doesn't realise the significance of Colt, and thinks she's just another new character like Mann and Amin.
 
This one has all the potential for becoming the new "These Are the Voyages"... If the writers wanted to kill a third season, this would be the right way to do that!

The story sort of defeats itself at the premise level already. We see a battle that takes 60 minutes, in a situation where time is supposed to be of essence. The actual, dramatically relevant clock was there last week, and at the beginning of this week: Reno (but why Reno? It was Po's job and story purpose!) will take X minutes to get the crystal ready, by which time the suit ought to be more than ready because this was not considered a bottleneck even before Reno found out the crystal would be delayed. Our heroes then do everything within their powers to waste time. Burnham should have been given another life sentence (although the fashionable sentence as of that date seems to be "treason" rather than "life" - I wonder how that works?) for stopping to talk at any point of the story, considering she never contributed anything to the mission there.

Talking about the mission is the sad part here. Sixty minutes of fighting to get the wormhole done, and it turns out it was all pointless: Georgiou kills Control for good. Not just the Leland zombie, but all of Control, so that the ships and drones go silent at the very moment they ought to spring into their most heated action. Saru is informed of this. Why does he not hit the brakes (and, if he feels like it, tell Burnham to do the same)? If spending 60 minutes doing silly things didn't end the universe, then stopping here and considering options for, say, two months really shouldn't hurt.

So the big torp fails to detonate, and the heroes close two torp-proof bulkheads - only, one fails to close. The torp's backup detonator is designed to offer the enemy a good quarter of an hour of entertainment for some reason. And then the torp goes off, and the door that closes at the last minute saves the ship, while the door that worked fine is completely obliterated in the blast! WTF?

Apparently, Admiral Cornwell never learned to do the hero roll beneath a closing door. That thing closes like molasses, when this would have been an excellent opportunity, techno-logically and storywise, to use VFX for slowing a satisfactory split-second slam. I mean, even Forbidden Planet could do that one!

Anyway, the torp looks special enough, a S31 piece of hardware that forms a big part of the launching vessel and may even have been something else altogether before Control got at it. But it still has the familiar twin access hatches, which is cute. And the faceted arrowhead shape of the ships and the fighting drones, which is cute, too.

We need a decisive shuttle count. And landing pod count. I have no doubt we can reach 198 bright dots easily enough, but can be well the shuttles and pods from the combat bikes?

Everybody was doing blue beams at one stage, even if the Discovery ones were short bursts only. But at one point, the big S31 ship fired a red beam. Why only then?

Why did the cleave ship stop? Cutting up a few more of those immobile S31 ships ought to have been useful. Using the blade as a shield should have helped, too. Did Control disable the ship for good?

If Burnham figured out how to use the Red Sign button, why didn't she signal Starfleet for help?

If the heroes built the suit to original specs, not omitting any optional extras, did the suit have a resurrection beam and a church levitation beam? It apparently had the Ba'ul pylon deactivation beam, and Burnham Junior rather than Senior was the one who used that, but who actually founded Terralysium?

What's with those suicidal workbee pilots? What is in those crates that's so vital that it needs to be moved from one corner of the shuttlebay to another in the middle of a battle? I could see one bee clearing debris from Burnham's launch track, but two moving self-sealing stem bolt boxes around? Do the bees run on automatic most of the time, failing to pay attention to alert statuses?

I'm fine with the declare-spore-drive-secret bit - it never was public knowledge to being with. But what's the harm in the drive? That's not the thing that nearly cost the lives of every non-Control sentience in the Milky Way.

Why declare the existence of the ship secret? Just a funny formulation of what in practice ought to have involved declaring the insignificant science vessel Discovery lost in an insignificant battle or accident or to unknown causes?

It's pretty redundant for Spock's folks to solemny swear never to speak the name of She-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named again, when a) they never talk about family stuff anyway, b) as far as the world knows, she only brought shame to her family, Starfleet and the Federation (all the redeeming bits being state secrets), and c) who'd care anyway?

Sillier still that Number One gets a name, be it her first or second or only or the one Chris uses during their intimate moments - and then fails to use it in the one official context in her DSC tenure.

I'm a bit conflicted about whether to rewatch. Or watch S3. Perhaps I'll rewatch S2 while pretending that "TATV" wasn't part of it?

Timo Saloniemi
 
Oh, and the Angel suit seemed to do multiple time-jumps just fine, preempting the concerns about the crystal burning out. I mean, why would the bit where she helps the hero ship through be any different from the bits where she visits the other side of the galaxy or the innards of an asteroid cloud or the rest? If she had half a dozen spare jumps in that crystal, it's pretty unlikely that she'd not have half a dozen plus one - so going back ought to have been possible all along. Why were Reno and Po dead wrong?

Timo Saloniemi
 
You'd be surprised how much re-designing a ship class from the ground up with modern day design principles can shorten the manufacturing / certification time.

The old Klingon Ships with it's Gothic design looks like a HORRENDOUSLY in-efficient design for mass production.

They just used some of the D7s from 100 years earlier. Wait... was Vorok a time traveller charged with preventing holodeck technology from falling into galactic hands too early? The Klingons were involved with the Temporal Cold War from the get go, perhaps due to their access to such a valuable piece of temporal technology.
 
It's pretty obvious that the torpedo thing was filler for padding out a single episode into a two-parter - a scene that would have worked fine if it lasted for 47 seconds total, with bold split-second decisions on self-sacrifice and no time to consider the obvious alternatives (use the lever on the other side of that door, rig a rope to the one on the inconvenient side, beam out after pulling the lever, crawl out in a spacesuit after pulling the lever, etc. etc.). But the story purpose overall was to remove Cornwell from the writing equation, which was fine.

I mean, we finally learned she was a S31 head honcho, despite possible "Project Daedalus" appearances to the contrary: her death directly paved the way for Tyler to be promoted and all. She probably preferred glorious death to getting treated by Dr. Adams...

Makes sense, in terms of all her S1 activities. And it was quite a stroke of luck for Lorca to find himself paired with the one person who could give him access to the blackest of UFP projects and the least available data!

Other filler fits less naturally - Spock following his foster sister to the wormhole-creation location was weird in every respect, not the least because the surface of a piece of S31 ship wreckage would by definition be against the wormhole criteria. After all, the S31 ships never move, so the jetsam marks the very spot where some of those would get sucked into the future with the Discovery...

The worst filler IMHO were the astromech drones built in the image of ET - not just superfluous and contrary to Gene!s VISHUN!!!!, but also undermining the whole torpedo debacle. Even if the ship couldn't drop shields to let the Discovery or the shuttles carve out the bit of hull with the torp in it, these bots should have been used for the purpose.

But the damage done was pretty cool. And considering all the convoluted wrapping-up at the end, it's weird they didn't use that as an excuse to turn the ship into something even more TOS-like, just for the heck of it!

Timo Saloniemi
 
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