And yet, you're in this thread...?
Spoilers A big hint about the finale/season 3 has dropped...
- Thread starter eschaton
- Start date
And talking about a series you don't watch and only read about is?
To quote the shat: 'Get a Life'
I personally was fully invested in the Abrams films but certainly was not prepared for DSC.
And...?
I would agree with this overall. Part of why Discovery was a letdown to me though (although I am enjoying it) is I feel like in many ways it should have been the spiritual successor to DS9, given the use of serialization, opportunities for long-form character arcs, etc. Yet I really haven't seen anything yet out of Discovery which reaches the depth of character work on that show.
Yes, I know we're only about as many episodes into the series as the first season of DS9. But other shows (I'm looking at you Game of Thrones) have been able to build coherent character arcs for a large ensemble cast into modern short seasons. I think Discovery hesitates to do this because in some ways it hasn't fully committed to serialization as of yet, which means having slower-paced episodes which are basically entirely about developing interesting dynamics between the characters.
Basically there's still a bit too much focus on plot for my taste, which leads the characters (particularly the non-Burnham characters) to act more as exposition machines at times than as fully-realized people. I'd be a lot more engaged with the show if it used the scenarios set up every week primarily as a way to explore who each of the characters are - something done in a few cases earlier in the season (New Eden, An Obol for Charon, If Memory Serves), rather than "servants to the arc."
That's what they are. The show is about Burnham.
The differences between these shows should make it apparent as to why this is not a fair comparison.
Spore drive is on the same level with the warp salamanders and it is part of the central premise of the show. Mirror universe and S31 are two stupidities they dragged from the previous shows into this.
I wasn't. I don't think they are bad films by any means but didn't feel compelled to watch any of them more than twice.
I don't see how spore drive is on part with warp salamanders. It strikes me as more like the transwarp conduits or the aliens from Equinox.
Viva la differance!
The warp Salamanders are in a league of their own. The spore drive is no nuttier than any faster than life technology in the franchise. Both the MU and S31 have their place in the Star Trek conversation for good reasons as they are both designed as reflections of the narrative of the franchise.
Warp Salamanders aren't even that nutty when you take into consideration the other times we've seen characters getting transformed. For me they're akin to Geordi getting transformed into a tarchannen, or Neelix and Tuvok getting merged because of a flower or when the Enterprise D crew all got mutated by Barclays flu vaccine or whatever. It's weird, but like Janeway once said, 'weird is part of the job'.
Threshold strikes me as being like Star Treks take on 'The Fly'. When you view it like that it's kinda fun.
Then again,
Remember: In Star Trek, Kirk met and battled the Greek God Apollo. They powered the warp engines with the necklace of an ambassador (who Kirk threatened to spank earlier).
And then there's the aninated episodes which featured a universe of magic.
Star Trek's reputation as serious sci-fi =/= the reality of it.
And then there's the aninated episodes which featured a universe of magic.
Star Trek's reputation as serious sci-fi =/= the reality of it.
TNG pretty much went back to that idea of a "universe of magic" with the Where No One Has Gone Before, Honestly, no Trek series has been immune to this tendency and each has embraced in their own way, so suggesting Disco should be considered at all unworthy of the franchise on such counts should involve a lot of soul searching.
Personally speaking I'd feel a lot better about the dodgy science in Discovery (which has always been a part of Trek, as was noted) if they also included the didactic "what lesson did we learn this week kids" element of the series - which has been a constant element of every Star Trek up until now.
Indeed, I'd go so far as to say the use of heavy-handed "message" episodes (or at least episodes with singular, easily identifiable themes) is the main thing which distinguishes the Trek format from that of other TV science fiction, which usually restrict themselves to exploring plot and character. It's one of the main reasons why The Orville seems so "Trekkian" - because you can clearly determine episode X is either "let's focus on this theme/issue" or "let's focus on giving this secondary character their place in the sun."
Indeed, I'd go so far as to say the use of heavy-handed "message" episodes (or at least episodes with singular, easily identifiable themes) is the main thing which distinguishes the Trek format from that of other TV science fiction, which usually restrict themselves to exploring plot and character. It's one of the main reasons why The Orville seems so "Trekkian" - because you can clearly determine episode X is either "let's focus on this theme/issue" or "let's focus on giving this secondary character their place in the sun."
So DISCOVERY should have followed in ENTERPRISE's footsteps and used this for the opening theme song...
"Like a long lonely stream
I keep runnin' towards a dream
Movin' on, movin' on.
Like a branch on a tree
I keep reachin' to be free
Movin' on, movin' on.
'Cause there's a place in the sun
Where there's hope for ev'ryone
Where my poor restless heart's gotta run.
There's a place in the sun
And before my life is done
Got to find me a place in the sun."
I actually enjoy that Discovery is willing to let the audience decide the lessons they are learning instead of telling them. It makes it feel more like Star Trek for grown ups to me. There are in fact many lessons to be found in this series, but the audience is expected to apply some of their own brain power to figure which they are gleaning.
My trouble with this concept is that I've often felt past treks and the Orville as to often throw out a bad or poorly conceived lesson, double down on it, and then expect the audience to swallow it whole.
This however is often how Star Trek novels have differed from the series, as its generally unworkable to write a 300 page story that is restricted to one idea, just as making a 15-15 episode story can't either, but that hardly means the messages aren't there.
As for distinguishing itself from other shows, no, there have been many science fiction shows which adopted the 'message' episode format either in part or in whole. And it wasn't even the first, as anthology shows like Twilight Zone, One Step Beyond and The Outer Limits and Doctor Who predated Trek while Space 1999, Babylon 5, Farscape, Stargate, X-Files, Dark Matter and Killjoys often stepped into the message episode arena among others which I haven't mentioned. I will agree, however, that many of these series have often not been as heavy handed with their metaphors and allegories as Star Trek has been.
Ugh. No. The Orville already does that quite enough. The fact DSC doesn’t engage in this “lesson of the week” is precisely why I like it so much. I’ve already watched 700+ hours (multiple times) of that kind of Trek.
I watch the Orville—it entertains me in the moment—but its explicit “lesson of the week” aspect is largely responsible for me liking it less than DSC.
So DISCOVERY should have followed in ENTERPRISE's footsteps and used this for the opening theme song...
"Like a long lonely stream
I keep runnin' towards a dream
Movin' on, movin' on.
Like a branch on a tree
I keep reachin' to be free
Movin' on, movin' on.
'Cause there's a place in the sun
Where there's hope for ev'ryone
Where my poor restless heart's gotta run.
There's a place in the sun
And before my life is done
Got to find me a place in the sun."
I wouldn't object to them following in Star Cops footsteps and use a Justin Hayward (of the Moody Blues) song instead. Maybe this one, its good driving music and a whole lot less saccharine.
