Spoilers A big hint about the finale/season 3 has dropped...

[Spaceship Jo]

I think this is the crux of the issue. Why should DSC be held to higher standard then previous spin-offs? What specific reason makes it different and therefore worthy of greater criticism? It's the arbitrariness that I think a lot of people take issue with.

What a strange question. Things that follow in the footsteps of other things have the advantage of having followed other things. They have seen the greatness and the mistakes, and therefore have every chance to model themselves on the greatness and avoid the mistakes.

 

[Alan Roi]

Also, CBS is charging me for the privilege of watching it.

How is that a valid reason for stating Discovery's passing grade is all other Trek's best?

 

[Agony_Boothb]

What a strange question. Things that follow in the footsteps of other things have the advantage of having followed other things. They have seen the greatness and the mistakes, and therefore have every chance to model themselves on the greatness and avoid the mistakes.

So does that mean every trek spin-off was held to increasingly higher standards? How do we measure this?

 

[Alan Roi]

What a strange question. Things that follow in the footsteps of other things have the advantage of having followed other things. They have seen the greatness and the mistakes, and therefore have every chance to model themselves on the greatness and avoid the mistakes.

Given that Disco has had a better first 28 eps than any Trek series post TOS, I'd suggest it is bucking the trend that Trek is infamous for.

 

[Jadeb]

So does that mean every trek spin-off was held to increasingly higher standards? How do we measure this?

Give me a show that’s as good as TOS or even TNG and we can talk next steps.

Seriously, why are we told Discovery had to be serialized? To fit into the modern TV landscape. I will judge it by that standard.

 

[Alan Roi]

Give me a show that’s as good as TOS or even TNG and we can talk next steps.

Seriously, why are we told Discovery had to be serialized? To fit into the modern TV landscape. I will judge it by that standard.

Still one of the top scifi shows I have watched in the past 3 years. And I've already seen 2 eps I have now placed in my Star Trek top 20 of all time and I get to enjoy what are the equivalent of very good Star Trek novels/10hr movies, which IMO puts it pretty damn close to the top.

 

[Jadeb]

AFAIC, it is far better than Voyager in pretty much every single way imaginable. But obviously, others disagree with me. I watch just about every genre show on TV, and I consider Disco in the top 20%.

I gave up on Voyager and have stuck with Discovery, so I agree it’s better. But that’s a low bar.

Also, I’ll note that I do think Discovery’s season two is much better than season one. I hope the improvement continues in season three.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I find it better than Voyager, large chunks of TNG and a fair amount of ENT.

 

[Alan Roi]

I gave up on Voyager and have stuck with Discovery, so I agree it’s better. But that’s a low bar.

Also, I’ll note that I do think Discovery’s season two is much better than season one. I hope the improvement continues in season three.

fair enough, but that bar is low because that's where past Trek spinnoffs designed it for a limbo contest and producing Trek to be something you put on in the background.

If past Trek spinnoffs weren't committed to plumbing the depths for at least their first 50+ episodes, then complaints about Disco not coming out of the gate strong would actually bear weight.

 

[Jadeb]

I find it better than Voyager, large chunks of TNG and a fair amount of ENT.

I’d agree wth this, but I think those things are poor, and I don’t want modern Trek to be in their company.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I’d agree wth this, but I think those things are poor, and I don’t want modern Trek to be in their company.

It's kind of hard to avoid "family".

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Because it has an unprecedented budget, doesn’t need to fill a season of 26 episodes, has no fixed airdate and is competing in an era of sophisticated, prestige television that isn’t judged by 1960s (or 1990s) standards. Also, CBS is charging me for the privilege of watching it.

I actually think those are fair things to judge the show by. Unfortunately I don't think a majority of the fanbase are using the same rationale.

 

[Mudd]

What I've seen of STD was mediocre and uninvolving TV at best; there's no reason to excuse it because it's Star Trek.

 

[Nerys Myk]

What I've seen of STD was mediocre and uninvolving TV at best; there's no reason to excuse it because it's Star Trek.

If I didn't enjoy it, I wouldn't watch it. Even if it's Star Trek.

 

[Mudd]

If I didn't enjoy it, I wouldn't watch it. Even if it's Star Trek.

That would go without saying.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

If I didn't enjoy it, I wouldn't watch it. Even if it's Star Trek.

Same here. It's engaged me in a way Star Trek hasn't been able to do since DS9 went off the air. After Enterprise, Nemesis and the Abrams films, I was fully prepared to not be invested in Star Trek ever again, then along came Discovery.

 

[Alan Roi]

While I absolutely acknowledge that there are people looking to complain about things, that's not at all what this conversation was about: The end of all life in the universe (multiverse) is silly because of the reasons listed above.

Other Treks have had issues with Stakes, absolutely. It was silly when the Enterprise was near earth and somehow the only ship in range. That's a legit criticism of many older Trek stories. If DSC does it, it will be a legit criticism of a DSC.

There is nothing wrong with holding a new show to a higher standard. DSC is standing on the shoulders of giants, so it's great when they do great, and kind of inexcusable when some elements are as well handled as Spock's Brain.

Boreth makes lots of sense, by the by. The degree to which it matches previous continuity... there's definitely room for argument (though I personally like the way DSC treated it).

Okay, what are the elements that are handled as well handled as Spock's Brain? What are you're "Brain? Brain? What is Brain?" elements?

 

[Longinus]

But how does any new trek show even have a chance if the the best of past shows is considered a bare passing grade for the new one along with all the other critical grading it gets like for fashion, lighting, who gets the most lines etc.?

That's not the bar. I however would like the bar to be being better than the bottom of the barrel one-off stupidities of the previous shows, especially when choosing the central elements for a modern serialised show.

 

[Mudd]

I've watched two episodes this season, the opener and the Talos one, because Pike intrigues me. Spock? No. What I read here of the rest of the story sounds pretty dumb, and certainly not worthy of my time.

 

[Alan Roi]

That's not the bar. I however would like the bar to be being better than the bottom of the barrel one-off stupidities of the previous shows, especially when choosing the central elements for a modern serialised show.

What are the bottom of the barrel stupidities from the other shows you see Discovery is spending all its time concentrating on?