Yeah, as much flak as B&B and the other writers of TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT could get they wrote Vulcans a lot better and more subtly than these folks can.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x13 - "Such Sweet Sorrow"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Yeah, as much flak as B&B and the other writers of TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT could get they wrote Vulcans a lot better and more subtly than these folks can.
Sometimes subtle is too subtle to make the point. For instance many people I've interacted elsewhere didn't realize that the Enterprise never fired on the Discovery in this episode. The presentation that it was all Burnham's vision was too subtle for many people, including experienced Star Trek reviewers.
Beside, no way such an understated wallpaper-like scene as described would have brought tears to my eyes as the actual one did.
Are you kidding? The scene as described would have had you in the fetal position sobbing and muttering "I-I-I love you, Papa, I LOVE YOU!" over and over.
Yeah, you need to pay attention to things these days, which is hurting some folk. Jammer, in particular, apparently thought the S31 ship Burnham and Spock boarded in Valley was Leland's ship, despite dialogue teling us explicitly that Georgiou was off chasing that vessel and that this was another S31 ship that was unusual because it missed a check-in... which you would go "no shit!" about HAD it been Leland's ship.
I guess they made the right choice after all then.
It's painful for me to say this, because I've been following Jammer's reviews since I was in high school, but in this latest review, he sounded more like a Stern Dad. "They better have a shakeup in next week's finale!" "They better!" How dare they have any sentimentality! How dare they!
Never in my life have I heard people complain about tearful goodbyes. If you're leaving forever, how the fuck do you think some people are supposed to act?
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Bull on Night Court may have had the greatest farewell moment in all of television history. 
Many of the season finales of Farscape, including the season 1 finale, were mostly goodbyes.
They can't win.
They give action and adventure...
Response: "What is this? STAR WARS? Star Trek isn't all pew pew and explosions...it's about the characters dammit!"
They give an episode of character moments and sentimentality...
Response: "WTF is this? This is BORING! You set up a battle...I want the BATTLE! (Pew Pew!)"
I'm glad I'm not alone re: the reviews. I have read and enjoyed Jammer's work forever, but some of the recent reviews surprised me for both this and the details they missed.
Changing subjects, what continues to baffle me about fan reactions to Discovery (more particularly on the subreddit, to be clear--I'm not critiquing anyone's engagement here) is that people sometimes call it ham-fisted or unsubtle, but then criticize the show for issues that the show has, in fact, addressed subtly. Criticisms of unsubtlety seem to correspond to missing subtle detail. It's weird.
To the episode at hand, as far as I'm concerned Discovery is the first time in the entire run of Star Trek that people routinely behave like people. My experience with workplaces, including those where scientists work, is that professional competency happens alongside frustration, tears, full-on break downs, shared trauma, and every other emotion. And that's without the mind-bending horrors and high strangeness experienced on a sci-fi show. In other words, showing emotion is a regular part of people's lives, and happy, productive workplaces are often those where those emotions are allowed to happen. I would hope that the future has such places.
I continue to argue that if the show has a decent respect for the characters as people, then it must show us how they deal with bidding goodbye to their world. I'm happy to see Discovery normalize feeling things in both public and private.
He also grades The Orville on a curve in his own words.
I'm in the middle of re-watching. As the crew say goodbye to their families, we see who the main characters are going to be from here on out. Each story has a personal touch. Anyone who says any of this is unnecessary is wrong. They are wrong.
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I feel like if we hadn't of had that scene, the criticism would have been 'Look at how these characters blindly follow Mary-Sue Burnham, they didn't even bother saying good bye to their families!' Once again Discovery is damned if it does, damned if it doesn't
Welcome to DSC where everything is your fault and good jobs don't matter...They can't win.
They give action and adventure...
Response: "What is this? STAR WARS? Star Trek isn't all pew pew and explosions...it's about the characters dammit!"
They give an episode of character moments and sentimentality...
Response: "WTF is this? This is BORING! You set up a battle...I want the BATTLE! (Pew Pew!)"
It's almost like the fanbase version of gaslighting
Some gas is not worth lighting.
Some of us don't consider V2 an upgrade
Ha!!!!!! The far superior Romana, Yes please, I wonder what you get if you lick her.
They can't win.
They give action and adventure...
Response: "What is this? STAR WARS? Star Trek isn't all pew pew and explosions...it's about the characters dammit!"
They give an episode of character moments and sentimentality...
Response: "WTF is this? This is BORING! You set up a battle...I want the BATTLE! (Pew Pew!)"
I said it earlier we Star Trek fans are hard to please sometimes.
I am so old.
Or have different tastes than you...
