Has the Red Angel moved the show out of the Prime Universe?

[StarMan]

I think you need to go rewatch TNG S7 episode "Parallels" to see just how much of an issue TNG made out of EVERY DECISION made in TNG over the years.

Bottom line: No, stuff like this wasn't just a product of ST09 or JJ Abrams take on Star Trek.

Hold up. That was about alternate realities, sure. But none of those realities were formed from ...

Actually, on second thoughts, I don't think I'm going to win this one.

 

[Awesome Possum]

This obsession with the show not being in the Prime universe needs to end. Everyone involved has said it's part of the same timeline as TOS, it's time to accept that.

 

[Turtletrekker]

This obsession with the show not being in the Prime universe needs to end. Everyone involved has said it's part of the same timeline as TOS, it's time to accept that.

I always laughed at the Thermians treating the original Galaxy Quest episodes as historical documents, but I never really got the joke until all of these "it's not the Prime Universe" arguments.

 

[PiotrB]

I don't understand this fixation on prime timeline/universe. The series, as the creators said, takes place in PT/U and nobody will change it. Fantasies that Burnham sacrifices herself and disappears from the Spock family, which causes, among other things, the return of colourful uniforms are simply ludicrous. AK promised to synchronize with the canon and this has been happening since the beginning of the season. We already have an explanation of colourful uniforms, holograms and hair of Klingons. Partially we also have already explained why Spock did not mention Burnham. In the original version of the time line she died while fleeing. The intervention of the RA introduced another change in PT/U (not the first and not the last) and this is the whole explanation. It wasn't necessary as the one mentioned above, but we received it and that's it.

 

[BillJ]

This obsession with the show not being in the Prime universe needs to end. Everyone involved has said it's part of the same timeline as TOS, it's time to accept that.

No. I treat it as an alternate timeline. Though I'm fascinated why people are so up-in-arms over how others see it? You see it as prior to TOS. Fair enough. I don't think it fits in any form, regardless of what the creators say.

And the big thing is that the creators don't think at least some of the elements fit pre-TOS or they wouldn't have said everything would line up by the end of season two.

 

[Gonzo]

No. I treat it as an alternate timeline. Though I'm fascinated why people are so up-in-arms over how others see it? You see it as prior to TOS. Fair enough. I don't think it fits in any form, regardless of what the creators say.

And the big thing is that the creators don't think at least some of the elements fit pre-TOS or they wouldn't have said everything would line up by the end of season two.

I also do not really understand why some have such an issue over some not liking it, it does not affect my enjoyment and the dislikers have just as much right to make their points as the likers do.

As you know I have been fine with either option from the start but that comment from the show runners is telling.

Perhaps it will have something to do with the changes made after Berg and Harberts left.

 

[BillJ]

I also do not really understand why some have such an issue over some not liking it, it does not affect my enjoyment and the dislikers have just as much right to make their points as the likers do.

Prime or not, the only effect that it has on the show is when they pull out drivel explanations for things like Tyler's comm badge. They are trying so hard to go "look! Star Trek!!!" that it does effect the quality of the writing.

 

[fireproof78]

Though I'm fascinated why people are so up-in-arms over how others see it?

Perhaps because it is confusing? I certainly do not see the benefit of seeing it as an alternate timeline. I appreciate other's POV on the matter largely because I do not share it, and I find it very baffling when this assertion gets thrown around as though it is fact.

 

[BillJ]

Perhaps because it is confusing?

I'm a pretty simple high school graduate, and I can keep up. So I have faith others here will be able to.

I certainly do not see the benefit of seeing it as an alternate timeline.

Is there a benefit to it being Prime? I've yet to see what it is from a viewer perspective.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Making the show an AU gives them complete creative freedom. Control can simply be Borg Origins if they want, in the same way Batman villain origins change with each version of their world, no need for everyone getting amnesia and bending over backwards to reconcile it with what Next Gen and Voyager established. Their version of Spock can die or fall in love with Kirk or any number of new, fresh things. They can feature Romulans or holodecks or mass murdering Harry Mudd or anything they want in any combination they want.

They're trying to have their (reboot) cake and (establushed continuity) eat it too. Although I'm enjoying their output, it could be much more.

 

[Kemaiku]

And I think a couple of nephews.

There's a descendant of Peter Kirk in the Star Trek Away Team game. That's about as much mention as they'll ever get now.

 

[Alan Roi]

Is there a benefit to it being Prime? I've yet to see what it is from a viewer perspective.

It adds depth to the broad strokes we received before, turning archetypal and simplistic characters we used to know into more nuanced and deeper realized living breathing people if you accept its prime.

Of course, I can understand some people not liking to have to readjust how they look at people in TOS, but I find this enriches those stories instead of taking away from them.

 

[Kemaiku]

Only for it all to be completely classified so it means nothing anyway.

 

[BillJ]

It adds depth to the broad strokes we received before, turning archetypal and simplistic characters we used to know into more nuanced and deeper realized living breathing people if you accept its prime.

Of course, I can understand some people not liking to have to readjust how they look at people in TOS, but I find this enriches those stories instead of taking away from them.

But all those things can be true even if the show takes place in an alternate timeline. I consider Spock's relationship with Amanda and Sarek from the Abrams films to be perfectly valid and giving us more depth to what we saw in "Journey to Babel".

 

[Alan Roi]

But all those things can be true even if the show takes place in an alternate timeline. I consider Spock's relationship with Amanda and Sarek from the Abrams films to be perfectly valid and giving us more depth to what we saw in "Journey to Babel".

IMO, the JJ Movies didn't offer us any additional depth to what we saw to any character that we saw in TOS. To me, they appeared to be primarily interested in reminding us why we liked those archtypes TOS presented and to reinforce those original impression we always had. Discovery, IMO is a very different animal in this regards, as it deconstructs such characters and paints them in very different lights. For instance, Disco is miles ahead at adding depth to Sarek, not to mention Pike himself as a distinctly human being than the JJ movies were interested in doing (which was to paint him again as an archetype who ends up in a wheelchair as a silly nod to fate being the overriding force in reality).

 

[Noname Given]

I
Is there a benefit to it being Prime? I've yet to see what it is from a viewer perspective.

That for fans of TOS who like the 'Prime' timeline and would like to see that this show fits as well as all the other disparate YATI's over the past 50+ years; they shoehorn ST: D in there.

 

[Alan Roi]

That for fans of TOS who like the 'Prime' timeline and would like to see that this show fits as well as all the other disparate YATI's over the past 50+ years; they shoehorn ST: D in there.

If a show is proven already to be a repeat offender when it comes to inconstancy, what's another inconsistency?

 

[BillJ]

IMO, the JJ Movies didn't offer us any additional depth to what we saw to any character that we saw in TOS. To me, they appeared to be primarily interested in reminding us why we liked those archtypes TOS presented and to reinforce those original impression we always had. Discovery, IMO is a very different animal in this regards, as it deconstructs such characters and paints them in very different lights. For instance, Disco is miles ahead at adding depth to Sarek, not to mention Pike himself as a distinctly human being than the JJ movies were interested in doing (which was to paint him again as an archetype who ends up in a wheelchair as a silly nod to fate being the overriding force in reality).

Have to agree to disagree.

 

[fireproof78]

Is there a benefit to it being Prime? I've yet to see what it is from a viewer perspective.

I personally enjoy it from a world building, future forward looking and character history perspective. I treat it as more and more information to expand upon characters that I am interested in. Now, this doesn't mean it has to be Prime, because I had the same reaction to Kelvin Trek. What I knew of Kirk from Kelvin Trek further informed what I knew about TOS Kirk and vice versa.

Again, this isn't a requirement, but it has added to my enjoyment.

 

[Kemaiku]

Have to agree to disagree.

Indeed, the Kelvin actors added so much more detail and background to characters we loved than most people like to admit.