S1 was awesome, S2 is a yawn fest

[mos6507]

I agree, honestly I sometimes think trying to be like GoT doesn't even work for GoT. Watching (or reading about) characters you have come to love die over and over again, eventually loses it's impact and becomes an annoyance. Watching GoT can be exhausting and manipulative, and Trek would be best to steer clear of that type of storytelling.

The first of something becomes a vanguard. Everything else that follows turns it into a fad/cliche'. Disco jumped on the bandwagon too late and it feels contrived rather than organic. It features additional convoluted plot turns for the sake of plot turns rather than the show having something to actually say underneath. It also overdoes the (literal) backstabbing which serves no real purpose other than to make Starfleet seem little better than the Klingon empire. It's not any sort of world I'd want to live in. It's joyless.

BTW, what I find interesting is how much serializing is going on with The Orville despite all the accusations that it's slavishly copying TNG. At one point in the last episode Gordon referred back to all other failed romance episodes. And during the 2-parter there was a callback to Isaac cutting off Gordon's leg. So serialization doesn't have to be all or nothing. It can be more of a continuum.

 

[Vger23]

I was a Star Trek fan for 26 years before Discovery hit CBS All Access two years ago. Going by you, you'd think we'd never seen or liked Star Trek before Discovery. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I'm 39. I haven't been a teenager in 20 years. You want to know what I like? It's this:

Like: TOS, TOS Movies, DS9, DSC
In-Between: TNG, VOY, Kelvin Movies
Don't Like: ENT, TNG Movies

Why don't you try to get to know us a little better instead just trying to make assumptions about us?

Agreed. I've been a fan since nearly birth (1975). I like all Star Trek, but TOS and DSC are my favorites right now. I never really liked the 90's Trek sensibility and style as much as the original series and TOS movies. DSC is, by far, the closest to what I originally fell in love with when I watched the re-runs of TOS. And, quite frankly, I feel it's aimed directly at me. So go figure.

I don't belittle other shows in the franchise, but I do point out similar issues or failings (or places I feel those other shows came up dreadfully short of DSC), or differences in approach, because it's often relevant to the discussions. In a franchise that spans over 50 years, comparisons are to be expected.

 

[fireproof78]

BTW, what I find interesting is how much serializing is going on with The Orville despite all the accusations that it's slavishly copying TNG. At one point in the last episode Gordon referred back to all other failed romance episodes. And during the 2-parter there was a callback to Isaac cutting off Gordon's leg. So serialization doesn't have to be all or nothing. It can be more of a continuum.

Even MASH was serialized to a degree. Of course, it is not black and white and rather odd to think that it is.

I also find it highly interesting that individuals base their enjoyment on a show upon a feeling of whether or not I want to be in that world. Star Trek world, even DSC's, doesn't mean it would be exactly like what is portrayed. I wouldn't be on the Enterprise, any more than I would be on the Discovery. That doesn't make the world less intriguing or engaging, given the longer-term implications for the world as a whole.

 

[Lord Garth]

I don't think serialization is the be-all and end-all either. It's the model DSC chose. Last season, especially during the Mirror Universe episodes, it seemed more like straight serialization. This year it's more episodic but with an overall serialized arc, that's more common on most shows I've seen that do this. They've struck a better balance. With episodic: Black Mirror is great. And I'm hoping The Twilight Zone will be great too, even though I wish they'd have the balls to make it black-and-white.

I haven't seen The Orville this year, so I can't say anything about it. I don't have a problem with the show, I just didn't keep watching it. But I'm glad it's there for people who don't like Discovery (and even better if you like both). I'm more than aware DSC isn't everyone's cup of tea, and I didn't think it would be at the outset either. The Picard Series, whatever they end up calling it, will be something else even still. So I don't see the need to be all bitter about Disco. It's not like there aren't other options out there, if it's not for you.

 

[Ovation]

What you're actually describing here is how the target demo of Discovery is so different from what came before that Disco fans feel the need to belittle the earlier shows and its fans, to the detriment of Trek fandom as a whole.

And you were elected as the voice of “Trek fandom as a whole” when, exactly? The fifth of Never? Thought so.

That YOU find DSC doesn’t meet your expectations and desires as a fan is relevant to...wait for it...












you. You are not a representative sample of Trek fandom. You are a single data point. You keep extrapolating broad trends from your singular vantage point—especially trying to “speak for the older fans”. Well, don’t. As one of those “older fans”, I guarantee you do NOT speak for me. And there is evidence enough in this thread that I’m not alone.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

That funeral was a long drawn out mess for someone that featured in one episode. It felt more like filler than anything else.

You should really watch this show in my household. That would make for some lively conversation.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

What you're actually describing here is how the target demo of Discovery is so different from what came before that Disco fans feel the need to belittle the earlier shows and its fans, to the detriment of Trek fandom as a whole.

No that isn't what I'm describing at all.

 

[Tuskin38]

Don’t pay attention to mos6507. I stopped listening to them ages ago.

 

[Sir Stewart Wallace]

He's more machine now than man.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

That funeral was a long drawn out mess for someone that featured in one episode. It felt more like filler than anything else.

I agree, the funeral didn't feel earned at all. It would have helped immensely if we'd actually got to see airiam do something other than say 'spore drive activated'.

 

[Lord Garth]

One more thing I was thinking of, I don't get all this "Discovery is like Game of Thrones!" nonsense. Granted, I've never seen Game of Thrones (I know, I know... ), but the only part of DSC that seems -- to me -- like it would be from out of that show (at least from the sense I get of it) would be the Mirror Universe episodes. If someone wanted to say "Discovery is like Battlestar Galactica, you might as well call it Battlestar: Discovery!", then that I could see. During the first six episodes and the mid-season finale of S1, it did feel like that with Discovery, they wanted Star Trek to feel more like Battlestar Galactica.

During the second season, I think the creators have a better idea of what they want Discovery to feel like, what works for them and what doesn't, and so the comparisons to those other shows aren't as apt.

 

[Alan Roi]

I agree, the funeral didn't feel earned at all. It would have helped immensely if we'd actually got to see airiam do something other than say 'spore drive activated'.

She was a fellow crewmember who made a deliberate ultimate sacrifice to save all their lives. I think that deserves some commemoration. Its as much for them as it is for her. That's exactly what funerals are for. And its not like we were getting a 3 episode long funeral like the one given to a minor character on True Blood. I think this whole 'unearned' critique is getting out of hand. Funerals happen all the time in TV shows. This is the first time I've ever heard an ongoing complaint that one was 'unearned'.

 

[Sir Stewart Wallace]

Sometimes I feel like I have to fill in the blanks mentally with this show. I know I forget things fairly easily and it's a weekly show, but I don't remember Airiam being best buds with the B-Team and Tilly before she ate vacuum. The importance of the funeral (out of universe) did feel a little unearned. But then I figure hey, whatever, we don't see everything, maybe everyone did love her. I wish they'd given us more than an episode of backstory before they killed Airiam off, but this show doesn't strike me as too subtle or nuanced. Maybe I'll pick up more on a rewatch.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

She was a fellow crewmember who made a deliberate ultimate sacrifice to save all their lives. I think that deserves some commemoration. Its as much for them as it is for her. That's exactly what funerals are for. And its not like we were getting a 3 episode long funeral like the one given to a minor character on True Blood. I think this whole 'unearned' critique is getting out of hand. Funerals happen all the time in TV shows. This is the first time I've ever heard an ongoing complaint that one was 'unearned'.

Nothing's getting out of hand, I and others just have a different opinion to you. Personally I felt the whole airiam situation felt forced and whilst yeah what happened was sad, I as a viewer was basically given one episode to build a connection to her. The episode didn't work at building that connection for me. I also don't like airiam's life and impact being treated like exposition. It's lazy writing.

 

[Sir Stewart Wallace]

Nothing's getting out of hand, I and others just have a different opinion to you. Personally I felt the whole airiam situation felt forced and whilst yeah what happened was sad, I as a viewer was basically given one episode to build a connection to her. The episode didn't work at building that connection for me. I also don't like airiam's life and impact being treated like exposition. It's lazy writing.

I don't know if it's so much lazy writing as it is the fact plot drives Discovery. A lot happens every hour without much time for detailed character development. I think if the show had 22 episodes a season they might have fleshed Airiam out a little more.

 

[Vger23]

I think this Airiam death and funeral was more about feeling it through the characters who were her crew mates and friends rather than something earned that the audience was supposed to feel directly for.

I felt it through the eyes of her shipmates, not necessarily because of my own personal affinity for the character. I actually think they did an amazing job of setting it up in that way, and it was effective when viewed through that lens. If not, then yeah, I can see how someone would think it was off.

Certainly YMMV, though.

 

[NewHeavensNewEarth]

I agree, the funeral didn't feel earned at all. It would have helped immensely if we'd actually got to see airiam do something other than say 'spore drive activated'.

She kinda saved the galaxy (for the time being, at least) by sacrificing her life. I think that deserves more than a participation medal.

 

[fireproof78]

I think this Airiam death and funeral was more about feeling it through the characters who were her crew mates and friends rather than something earned that the audience was supposed to feel directly for.

I felt it through the eyes of her shipmates, not necessarily because of my own personal affinity for the character. I actually think they did an amazing job of setting it up in that way, and it was effective when viewed through that lens. If not, then yeah, I can see how someone would think it was off.

Certainly YMMV, though.

True on this point. Much of funerals are based around more the characters reactions than the audiences knowledge of the deceased. One need only look at the episode "The Bonding" to see that. We don't know that character who died.save for her connection to Worf. Worf's connection is the true significance of her death, not whether the audience knew her.

 

[SolarisOne]

Granted, I've never seen Game of Thrones (I know, I know... ),

Neither have I.

 

[DaveyNY]

Not according to Blalock herself in a slightly creepy interview by Matt Schneiderman of Stuff Magazine, dated 16 August 2004...

SCHNEIDERMAN: In one episode, you appeared with half of your backside showing. But people claim that you're nude in the European version of the show. Does such a fabulously sexy episode really exist?
BLALOCK: That is true. That was part of the massage scene, right before Trip and T'Pol do it. And I dropped my robe. The full shot aired on the East Coast, but when the network found out that crack was shown on Enterprise—this was after the whole Janet Jackson wardrobe malfunction—they freaked out. They cropped it for airing on the West Coast.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Are you comfortable with nude scenes?
BLALOCK: Probably more than most actors. But I have the same reservations as the next guy. Or girl.​

Did she repudiate it elsewhere? Can someone else involved with the production actually be quoted as saying it was a body double?

-MMoM

Either way, my statement still stands... It's still a very good looking tushy.