Red Angel Theories- Post Here

[CommanderRaytas]

I don't even think the Red Angel is Burnham, but I certainly don't think anyone should care what a bunch of insecure entitled manbabies have to say about it. If anything, if it bothers them, that makes me want it more.

This cracked me up way harder than it should have.

Bless you, dear.

 

[eschaton]

The problem is that most of the time someone with advanced tech is from the future. Is this one of the other times? Possible, but not likely.

Yeah, unfortunately this sort of idiocy is built into Trek from the ground up. I think T'Pol in Enterprise even made some comment about how hundreds of years before, there were less races in space - which made me roll my eyes.

Basically, for whatever reason, non-human races in Trek are either less technologically advanced than humanity, for all intents exactly the same level of advancement, or godlike energy beings. I guess because the writers feel like it would make for bad storytelling if the galaxy was full of corporeal races with godlike levels of technology?

Now, if they ever retcon this to be due to some sort of galactic-wide war which eliminated almost all of the "elder races" it would make somewhat more sense.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

So, one minor quibble. Did it bother anyone else that in the episode last week, everyone concluded the Red Angel must have been from the future, because it had advanced tech?

No.
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/sta...ight-and-shadows.298564/page-14#post-12830376

 

[ITDUDE]

Basically, for whatever reason, non-human races in Trek are either less technologically advanced than humanity, for all intents exactly the same level of advancement, or godlike energy beings.

Wait, does that means that Humans are all collectively Mary Sues?!?

 

[eschaton]

Wait, does that means that Humans are all collectively Mary Sues?!?

Seriously though. I do think a major reason the Trekverse was done this way was because it would be hard to have an optimistic future vision of humanity if we discovered that we were just the new kid on the block in a vastly older universe. I mean something more akin to David Brin's uplift universe would mean that humanity were scrappy underdogs, if not outright colonized right away. And it would be hard to go out exploring the unknown depths of space if much of it was already full of million-year old colonies, Dyson spheres, mined-out asteroid belts, etc. A "full galaxy" just leads to very, very different sorts of stories than the sort of "wild west" that Trek often wants to portray.

 

[Dales]

If it were Staments, Culber, or Tyler (and I'm not saying it is), would that make him a Gary Stu?

What about Jett Reno? I mean, she seems to be an expert at a lot of techy things and medical things (saving people's lives with tech). Would she be a Mary Sue if she were the Red Angel?

What if (purely hypothetically, for the sake of discussion) the red angel is Kirk or Spock? Would that make Kirk or Spock the ultimate Gary Stu?

I like Michael but I see the mary sue stuff, I have not seen episode 7 but watching episode 6 to see how much she is connected to spock even threaten to kill captain phillipa, its like she has become the centre and is important to everyone's life. those are mary sue characteristics.

yes I know she is spock 's sis but this is spock ,we are talking about, he never mentioned her in tos , even Quinto's Spock had no sibling, its just weird a bit to see how super important Michael is to everyone

 

[eschaton]

Also, I'm beginning to think that there was a major retcon mid-season to the Red Angel. I say this because Berg/Harberts promised that "science vs. faith" was to be a major portion of the season's arc, yet in the last two episodes (both filmed after they were fired) basically any sort of pseudo-religious mystery around the Red Angel has been totally deflated. It's just some future person in a spacesuit now. Pike's little off comments about god and church are also absent.

I mean, maybe I'm wrong, and maybe this element will come roaring back once again. But it's been a notable shift in tone.

 

[ITDUDE]

Yeah, it seems whole Red Angel changed:
Before:

After:

Where did halo go? And before there were no legs and no hint of mechanics. Now no halo, clearly legs and a mechanical suit. Definitely could be too many cooks in the kitchen situation...

 

[Gepard]

So, I'm kind of bummed that the Red Angel is some person in a super suit

Me too. I hadn't realized it until the reveal, but what I'd wanted for this season was for the Angel's motives to be demystified, but for its nature to remain unknown. Leave some mystery to events, forcing the characters to come to their own, individual understandings of what happened. That could have been a good angle to take on the supposed science v. faith theme – when faced with uncertainty, what schemas do we use to try and make sense out of unknowable events in a universe we don't entirely understand? In a universe where there are things that we don't yet know how to begin to understand? (Like, for example, how exactly a ~3lb lump of cells produces consciousness. As far as I know we're still not totally sure how to even begin studying that question.)

That's something I'd have liked. Time Travel Iron Man is a letdown by comparison.

I'm beginning to think that there was a major retcon mid-season to the Red Angel. I say this because Berg/Harberts promised that "science vs. faith" was to be a major portion of the season's arc, yet in the last two episodes (both filmed after they were fired) basically any sort of pseudo-religious mystery around the Red Angel has been totally deflated. It's just some future person in a spacesuit now. Pike's little off comments about god and church are also absent.

Yup. I'm also disappointed about Pike – I was about 80% certain they were setting up Devout Christan Pike, as was rumored, and I'm bummed that it seems we're not going to get that. The forum meltdowns alone would have been worth it.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I love that this last episode dropped hints it could be Ariam or Georgiou. They're spamming us with breadcrumbs and I love it. And best of all, there's nobody it could "shockingly" be that would outright ruin the arc for me.

Yeah, it seems whole Red Angel changed:
Before:

After:

Where did halo go? And before there were no legs and no hint of mechanics. Now no halo, clearly legs and a mechanical suit. Definitely could be too many cooks in the kitchen situation...

In fairness, the top one was a drawing Spock did as a child.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Yup. I'm also disappointed about Pike – I was about 80% certain they were setting up Devout Christan Pike, as was rumored, and I'm bummed that it seems we're not going to get that. The forum meltdowns alone would have been worth it.

SAME. Identifying it as a someone in an Iron Man suit has taken away the faith vs science thing which they were hyping when season 2 was announced.


Not that I'm not loving what they're doing, I just wanted Pike to go off the deep end and start praying on the bridge when the angel appeared.

 

[Gepard]

Not that I'm not loving what they're doing, I just wanted Pike to go off the deep end and start praying on the bridge when the angel appeared

Holy fuck that would have been goddamn amazing. I like Pike as-is, but he's also a cookie-cutter Good Starfleet Officer. I'm aching to see somebody do something new with that archetype. (And Lorca did not count.)

 

[Gepard]

The lousy part of all this is, I've now built a version of season 2 in my head that I like better than the one we've got. Same shit happened with season 1.

Sigh.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Yup. I'm also disappointed about Pike – I was about 80% certain they were setting up Devout Christan Pike, as was rumored, and I'm bummed that it seems we're not going to get that. The forum meltdowns alone would have been worth it.

Even the Beatles will be more popular than Jesus in the 23rd century!!
[/hypothetical forum rant]

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Looks a little like Iron Man there.

I don't even think the Red Angel is Burnham, but I certainly don't think anyone should care what a bunch of insecure entitled manbabies have to say about it. If anything, if it bothers them, that makes me want it more.

Dun-a-nun-a-nun-a-nun-a-Burn-Ham!
Dun-a-nun-a-nun-a-nun-a-Burn-Ham! Burn-ham! Burn-Ham!

 

[Nerys Myk]

After watching the latest episode, I think we all know who the Red Angel is:

Spoiler

Brainiac

Spoiler: Or

Brainiac's Daughter

 

[Succubint]

I was not getting all the Brainiac references (have since googled it), guess I'm not as geeky as I assumed. LOL. For me it was more like the sentinels from the Matrix. What I do find interesting, however, is the idea that the probe was modified and sent back in time to do...something. What exactly? Was information retrieval its main goal? So why did it need that info and have to hack Discovery to get it. Is Airiam now a sleeper agent?

I really hope that Airiam is not so much used as a saboteur but a bridge, a way to communicate with the future entities that are involved.

I decided Airiam could be the Red Angel now, thanks to the latest episode, but also because there's a shot in the preview for next episode where it looks more like Airiam than previous glimpses.

That said, Michael still remains a big contender. Mostly because Spock is the first to see the Red Angel phenomenon and the RA told him where young Michael was hiding when she ran away. That narrows down who the RA could be due to the knowledge it posessed to pass on. The RA does seem very connected to Spock, Burnham and Discovery in general (with Saru getting a personal visit too).

I guess if the time comes where someone (with female humanoid form) has to don the from-the-future RA mech suit and make those time jumps to close the time loop, info could be passed on to her from Michael and Spock if needed, but that seems clunkier in some ways.

If it's Michael, I'm just gonna lean into it and embrace the outrage that will be coming from certain fans. Michael's the lead protagonist and I am cool with the writers of the show being unapologetic about that.

 

[Paul755]

I wonder if it could be a physical manifestation of the Discovery computer that we saw in the Short Trek.

Maybe it’s going back in time to try to change or correct things that gave it the future it was in.

 

[Roald]

The whole thing has got to be linked to Spock’s original vision. Michael gets attacked by a monster in a Vulcan forest, Spock saves her due to the Angel’s vision. I want to bet, that by the end of the series, the Angel has to undo it’s Interference in time, thus letting Michael die as a kid. A new timeline is created -where Michael dies young- and that is the timeline we know from TOS. Also, because the Angel has interfered with Discovery it will take the ship from this timeline and transport it 500 years in the future. From season 3 onwards, Discovery will be set post-VOY, with a duplicate Michael on board possibly. I’m probably not 100% right, but my guess is I’m pretty close to the mark...

 

[Dales]

well at least it is safe to say the red angel is female, which only infuriates the theory it is Michael.