Star Trek Discovery Renewed For Season 3

[Rahul]

That said, I think a key question is if Discovery ends up with a fourth season. By the time Season three is over, CBS All Access will have the Picard show, Lower Decks, and be able to begin production of the MU Georgiou show if they so desire. Given all of that, the Trek brand won't be relying upon Discovery in the same way - and might make a change if those shows end up haviing higher viewership. I could see them deciding to spin off several of the characters onto an entirely new show, and hanging up its spurs.

I think the 4th season is pretty much in the bag already as well.

Like, I can actually see that at that time, DIS won't be the flagship Trek show anymore (I guess that will go to the Picard-show). But - even in their wider show ensemble - it's going to be one of their main shows. Like, "Lower Decks" and that horrible MU-S31-Georgious show are going to be the "smaller" ones (probably with a notably smaller budget as well).

What I can see is a noticeable reduction in budget - As soon as there are many shows concurrently, I guess they want more ressurce-sharing, and having one "stand-out" show (just look at the budget of DIS season 2 opening) isn't that important anymore. But they will absolutely hold on it, even if other shows are more successfull - It's their main prestige show now, and the one they publicly built their new universe on. They are going to keep that.

The one thing I can see is DIS "only" getting 5 seasons instead of 7, if they think oterh, newer shows can have a better Return of Investment. But as long as All Access exists - they will let DIS run it's natural course.

 

[eschaton]

Perhaps its not truly "sophisticated," but doing what Trek has done in the past with the "message of the week" and spelling out the obvious is the very definition of "UNsophisticated", so I'm not sure where that leaves us.

I guess the issue I have here is by dumping "message of the week" it takes away a core element which distinguished Star Trek from other science fiction shows. Almost every other non-anthology SFnal show I have ever watched only really attempts to engage the viewer on the level of "this is what's happening in the plot, and this is what's happening to the characters." Some level of intellectual content - even if it's middlebrow - is what helped to set Trek apart - a legacy of how TOS was originally conceived more as The Twilight Zone with a regular cast than the continuity-obsessed mess it has become.

I don't agree that the entire point of science fiction is to use tech or allegory to explore the human condition. Sometimes a fun adventure in space is just a fun adventure in space. I actually believe that one of the main appeals of science fiction is to tell a story in a fantastic setting and stretch the imagination. That's it. It need not be allegorical or examinationish. It just needs to be a fun story in a cool setting that inspires the imagination a bit.

I suppose you're right that it can be that, but I find it very depressing if that's all it really is left to Trek. Because again, there's plenty of that being made all the time. If I wanted that I could just watch MCU movies or something. I want there to eventually be something akin to City on the Edge of Forever, The Inner Light, Tapestry, The Visitor, In The Pale Moonlight, etc - and I feel like - fundamentally - it's something only Trek can do (or has done anyway).

 

[Rahul]

Yeah. Quite honestly in a certain respect I think Discovery is the least political Star Trek TV series which has been produced, insofar as they have completely avoided the didactic "issue" episodes which are meant to teach the viewers a particular moral lesson. Basically any political content/themes are just touched upon as lightly as possible and then pretty quickly dropped to get back to the "good part."

I think the famous (and sometimes dreaded) "message shows" are vastly over-rated as far as the actual "commentary" goes. They usually aren't the best episodes anyway.

What is IMO the real, impactful political message are the subtle things: The standard procedure of having an action-show in which the solution is rarely to gun down the badguy, but the first and usually successfull action is to talk to and understand the other guys. Having a black female in a serious position on the bridge (TOS) or as the main character in DIS. Basically the stuff that we don't even notice, because it's presented as natural. And IMO DIS already has plenty of that - while Lorca was the alt-right pop-star, now we not only have the attitude of Pike, but we have a vast, diverse team front and center, and little background comments (like Saru aknowledging his status as a "refugee") is IMO the real political commentary that sticks.

 

[BillJ]

I enjoyed a lot of Trek's morality tales.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I enjoyed a lot of Trek's morality tales.

Helped shape my life.

 

[BillJ]

Helped shape my life.

Honestly, based on my upbringing, they were probably the thing most responsible for making me a remotely sane individual.

 

[XCV330]

Honestly, based on my upbringing, they were probably the thing most responsible for making me a remotely sane individual.

You aren't alone Bill. That must make us related

 

[eschaton]

I think the famous (and sometimes dreaded) "message shows" are vastly over-rated as far as the actual "commentary" goes. They usually aren't the best episodes anyway.

I think it's important to note here that the explicitly political "message episodes" were just one smaller fraction of Trek's wider use of themes. Like let's take an episode and look at questions around mortality, parenthood, conflicted identity, whether the ends ever justify the means, the concept of history, language, whether regular people can be trusted with incredible powers, the choices we make in our youth and how they shape who we become, torture, post-traumatic stress, what it means to be human, cold-war paranoia...the list goes on and on.

Again, I'm enjoying Discovery a great deal more this season. But I still think it's missing something, in that it for some reason seems hesitant to stand up and say "this episode is about X idea" more explicitly. Episodes like New Eden and The Sound of Thunder came very, very close to this, but backed away from it.

 

[BillJ]

As far as having something to say, Discovery feels mostly empty so far, at least to me.

 

[XCV330]

I think they've deliberately toned down messages to just slightly above the noise level in part because of how politicized everything is, now. The connected modern world seems to be undergoing some mostly-cold civil war with itself culturally for a long while but it has intensified to the point we almost can't realize just how much it occupies what we think what we do, how we talk to others, how we even regard others.

So they turned the volume down on message. But I think they should just go for it. The alt-right types are going to give the show every ounce of vitriol they can manage to squeeze out, anyway. It doesn't matter. They always do now, but they'll fail because their tactics are understood, they cant help but make themselves known and they only have one or two tricks in their easy to read book.

 

[Vger23]

I guess the issue I have here is by dumping "message of the week" it takes away a core element which distinguished Star Trek from other science fiction shows. Almost every other non-anthology SFnal show I have ever watched only really attempts to engage the viewer on the level of "this is what's happening in the plot, and this is what's happening to the characters." Some level of intellectual content - even if it's middlebrow - is what helped to set Trek apart - a legacy of how TOS was originally conceived more as The Twilight Zone with a regular cast than the continuity-obsessed mess it has become.



I suppose you're right that it can be that, but I find it very depressing if that's all it really is left to Trek. Because again, there's plenty of that being made all the time. If I wanted that I could just watch MCU movies or something. I want there to eventually be something akin to City on the Edge of Forever, The Inner Light, Tapestry, The Visitor, In The Pale Moonlight, etc - and I feel like - fundamentally - it's something only Trek can do (or has done anyway).

I guess that this takes me to my most base argument though...I feel like that stuff IS present in Discovery, but it doesn't need to be a slow, thoughtful, tonally obvious approach to still have intellectual content. That's simply not true. Action packed and fast paced doesn't exclude something from having a theme, message, or intellectual content. Conversely, something slow, plodding and thoughtful isn't automatically "smart." We only feel that way because we're used to a certain approach. It's also that "approach" that got so stale and tiresome that it ended the franchise.

The same criticism was levied at the Kelvinverse movies as well, and I thoroughly disagreed with that back then too. I thought those movies had a lot to say. Just because the pace was relentless and the writing was somewhat logically suspect at times didn't mean there wasn't classic Star Trek in there.

I think people are used to seeing the franchise in 90's Trek fashion, and aren't able (or are unwilling) to see that it actually IS here in this version of the show.

That's my argument.

 

[Alan Roi]

I find the messaging all there. The only thing lacking is the show turning to the viewer and telling them what the message was this episode and reminding them what the right answer is and should be. Yes, that means the show actually a) trusts you to know there is one there and b) that you are willing to actually put in some work yourself as a viewer and not sit back lazily to be handed it on a silver platter.

I consider the "distinguishing feature" of an end of episode, "and what did we teach you today" more than a little condescending, IMO and always have. I don't think its a "feature" than needs to be maintained if one is making a show for grown-ups.

 

[XCV330]

That's why I'd like the Burnham Sermons to stop occuring at the end of some episodes

 

[Vger23]

I think they've deliberately toned down messages to just slightly above the noise level in part because of how politicized everything is, now. The connected modern world seems to be undergoing some mostly-cold civil war with itself culturally for a long while but it has intensified to the point we almost can't realize just how much it occupies what we think what we do, how we talk to others, how we even regard others.

So they turned the volume down on message. But I think they should just go for it. The alt-right types are going to give the show every ounce of vitriol they can manage to squeeze out, anyway. It doesn't matter. They always do now, but they'll fail because their tactics are understood, they cant help but make themselves known and they only have one or two tricks in their easy to read book.

What about the alt-left types? A-hoes on both sides, I'm afraid (speaking of political cold wars).

In all seriousness, though, I agree with your first paragraph. And I for one appreciate that they've tried to tone it down. The world is so full of polarizing shit sometimes. Star Trek was never EVER a "message show" for me. Never. It was fun, engaged the imagination, had great characters, and some engaging, imaginative premises. And MOST IMPORTANTLY, it was a fantasy escape from the real world. I don't think a message show is appropriate in this day, but a great escapism show that isn't trying to beat me over the head in a pompous and self-righteous way with some condescending message is great and wholeheartedly welcome.

Embed some high-level thinking into the show (nothing too specific or overt), shine a light on some issues, and let the viewer see different sides of an issue (even if it's subconsciously). I've noticed this a lot with DSC, and I really, genuinely appreciate it for that. The "lecture by television" approach just got tiresome.

 

[BillJ]

I think the biggest problem with the show, for me, is I've yet to be hooked by it. There's nothing about it that I go "Wow, I can't wait for next week!!!". It isn't "good", it isn't "bad", it is just kinda there. I think I'm a week behind, might get to it this weekend if time permits, but there is a lot of other things I'm wanting to watch. Including The Umbrella Academy.

 

[XCV330]

What about the alt-left types? A-hoes on both sides, I'm afraid (speaking of political cold wars).

"I am an extreme moderate.I believe anyone not in favor of moderation should be castrated."
-Ben Franklin (From John Adams miniseries, probably not a real quote)

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Alan Roi]

That's why I'd like the Burnham Sermons to stop occuring at the end of some episodes

Diary entry as sermon? Hmm...

 

[Alan Roi]

"I am an extreme moderate.I believe anyone not in favor of moderation should be castrated."
-Ben Franklin (From John Adams miniseries, probably not a real quote)

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

I don't know. Sounds like exactly a bit of crazy Franklin would have appeared to embrace in order to sound witty.

 

[Vger23]

"I am an extreme moderate.I believe anyone not in favor of moderation should be castrated."
-Ben Franklin (From John Adams miniseries, probably not a real quote)

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Hilarious!

Never seen that before. It's perfect.

 

[Elephant999]

That's why I'd like the Burnham Sermons to stop occuring at the end of some episodes

Ditto. Too much sanctimony at times.