Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x06 - "The Sound of Thunder"

[Jadeb]

Not anymore, he's Tyler with Voq's memories.

The original Tyler was imprinted on his brain remember, he's Tyler with a new'ish body.

I don’t even buy this as a viewer, much less as someone whose life could depend on him.

 

[eschaton]

He has a job to do. And he's doing it. And its important to the narrative. And Star Trek has had plenty of characters in the past who performed the same narrative duties, for again, the same useful narrative reasons. Its a bit odd to be watching a show that's asking a the audience to examine what they are watching, and to get a response back, "but I shouldn't have to."

You're right in this, but this is why it doesn't work. Words are being put in his mouth, because the arc demands a Section 31 position on this (in order to keep simmering conflict going) and since Ash is the only one there, he has to deliver the lines.

Honestly, if his writing was slightly more nuanced, and his delivery a bit different, I wouldn't mind. But it's just transparently mashing a character to fit the role the narrative requires. That's not fun to watch.

 

[Tuskin38]

I don’t even buy this as a viewer, much less as someone whose life could depend on him.

Voq killed Culber, not Tyler, and then Voq was killed by L'Rell, all that's left in there is Tyler and some of Voq's memories.

The last few episodes of Season 1 made that pretty clear.

 

[Lord Garth]

Yes.

Gary Mitchell was a corrupt God who was becoming exponentially more powerful by the moment. If he'd lived, he would've become a threat to the Universe eventually.

And if Edith Keeler lived, then, according to altered history, Nazi Germany would've won World War II and Hitler would've captured the world.

Many more would've died if they didn't.

 

[Amaris]

Gary Mitchell was a corrupt God who was becoming exponentially more powerful by the moment. If he'd lived, he would've become a threat to the Universe eventually.

And if Edith Keeler lived, then, according to altered history, Nazi Germany would've won World War II and Hitler would've captured the world.

Many more would've died if they didn't.

Well, yeah, if you accept that there were only two options. This is Star Trek. There are always more than two options.

 

[fireproof78]

Gary Mitchell was a corrupt God who was becoming exponentially more powerful by the moment. If he'd lived, he would've become a threat to the Universe eventually.

And if Edith Keeler lived, then, according to altered history, Nazi Germany would've won World War II and Hitler would've captured the world.

Many more would've died if they didn't.

But we might have seen Q sooner if Mitchell had lived.

Imagine that meeting O_o

 

[Alan Roi]

You're right in this, but this is why it doesn't work. Words are being put in his mouth, because the arc demands a Section 31 position on this (in order to keep simmering conflict going) and since Ash is the only one there, he has to deliver the lines.

Honestly, if his writing was slightly more nuanced, and his delivery a bit different, I wouldn't mind. But it's just transparently mashing a character to fit the role the narrative requires. That's not fun to watch.

All you have to do is put yourself in Tyler's shoes to understand what is going on with him. But by all means, refuse to if you don't think it will be fun to do so.

 

[Lord Garth]

Well, yeah, if you accept that there were only two options. This is Star Trek. There are always more than two options.

Tell us what the options are, then. Let's have you make the case.

 

[Noname Given]

The question I hate asking: How long does it take to repair the Enterprise? I hope they're doing some in-between five-year missions refitting. Otherwise, how bad was the damage really?

I'd venture this is when they (Starfleet) are 'refitting/expanding' the 1701 to take on 430 crew (as opposed to 203); and to take on the look we TOS fans know and love.
^^^
Given that - the one comment we have (from Scotty in ST:TMP) is that such 'refits' can take 18 months or more.

 

[Amaris]

Tell us what the options are, then.

I'm sorry, before I can do that I will need to reconfigure the auxiliary sub-routines with verterium cortenide in order to reverse the flow of chroniton particles. I have very little, but these radio tubes and this block of wood should suffice in recreating a transdimentional portal to the mirror universe where I can change several past events, which should seamlessly flow into this one.

Seriously? I just said it's Star Trek. These people have traveled through space, outside of time, outside of our universe, the show outright uses magic, just with blinking lights and technical terms.

 

[Lord Garth]

I'm sorry, before I can do that I will need to reconfigure the auxiliary sub-routines with verterium cortenide in order to reverse the flow of chroniton particles. I have very little, but these radio tubes and this block of wood should suffice.

Seriously? I just said it's Star Trek. These people have traveled through space, outside of time, outside of our universe, the show outright uses magic, just with blinking lights and technical terms.

Yes. Seriously.

And that first paragraph is TNG Technobabble Nonsense. We're talking about "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and "The City on the Edge of Forever" when they weren't doing any of that yet.

What's the Dramatic Alternative Solution to the tough choices Kirk has to make?

 

[Alan Roi]

I'm sorry, before I can do that I will need to reconfigure the auxiliary sub-routines with verterium cortenide in order to reverse the flow of chroniton particles. I have very little, but these radio tubes and this block of wood should suffice in recreating a transdimentional portal to the mirror universe where I can change several past events, which should seamlessly flow into this one.

Seriously? I just said it's Star Trek. These people have traveled through space, outside of time, outside of our universe, the show outright uses magic, just with blinking lights and technical terms.

So you can't make your case. Thank you.

 

[Jadeb]

Voq killed Culber, not Tyler, and then Voq was killed by L'Rell, all that's left in there is Tyler and some of Voq's memories.

The last few episodes of Season 1 made that pretty clear.

There’s what the show tells us, and then there’s believable human behavior. Even people who are acquitted of high-profile crimes often find their entire lives ruined.

 

[Alan Roi]

There’s what the show tells us, and then there’s believable human behavior. Even people who are acquitted of high-profile crimes often find their entire lives ruined.

And often these people whose lives are ruined start looking desperately for some community which will accept them, which is believable human behavior. Do I need to go on?

 

[Doc Mugatu]

Both Tyler and the Empress were ripped from their lives. Tyler, repeatedly. Both are trying to find their own footing in the world they now have to live in and the people they have to be to survive and find their way. The fact that they aren't 'unified' makes perfect sense. Imagine yourself going through what they have and imagine how in sync you might be.

I think you may misunderstand my use of 'unified." Tyler's attitude and tone seemed, to me, not in line with how he was previously written nor was the change well motivated within this episode to justify it. It was jarring. As such it feels more like the writers winging it. I am going to watch this episode again. Perhaps I missed something?

Spock is a tad homicidal: "Kill Gary Mitchell. Edith Keeler must die. Etc..."

Nothing wrong with a heartfelt "Vulcan Hello" or two or three ...

 

[fireproof78]

There’s what the show tells us, and then there’s believable human behavior. Even people who are acquitted of high-profile crimes often find their entire lives ruined.

So, why wouldn't he throw in with a covert operations outfit?

 

[TrickyDickie]

Not the best ep.

Watch Red Angel be Spock. Or Burnham.

The latest image of the Red Angel gave me quite a Burnham vibe.

I give the episode a 5. Neither hated it nor liked it a lot. Seemed predictable at many points.

Did I miss something, or did Saru beam down when Discovery was at red alert and had the shields up? It went by rather fast and the CBS streaming leaves a lot to be desired....lots of buffering and hiccups and difficult to go back to re-watch something.

I agree that in this day and age when downloading is mentioned, a poster needs to be very specific....it should be that simple, so that there are no misunderstandings from the get-go.

 

[Amaris]

Yes. I said seriously.

And that first that first paragraph is TNG Technobabble nonsense. We're talking about "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and "The City on the Edge of Forever" when they weren't doing any of that yet.

How is it any different? Star Trek Discovery has already made the case that technobabble fully exists in the world of Star Trek some ten years before Kirk takes command of the Enterprise. You can't say it doesn't exist, not now. That window is wide open. Star Trek has always been fantasy dressed up as science fiction. Spock couldn't find a way to contain Gary Mitchell? Edith Keeler absolutely had to die? Those are absolutes in a show that has repeatedly demonstrated that dead is never dead, time travel is like driving to the corner grocer, and transporting living humans from one planet to another is not only entirely feasible, but completely safe. You're asking for serious in a show that is not serious, and the harder you dig down on a joke comment shows that sometimes it's taken a little too seriously, and I mean that with all kindness.

So you can't make your case. Thank you.

Srs bsns. Please don't call Starfleet Security. I don't think I could take the shame.

 

[Alan Roi]

Perhaps I missed something?

You missed alot.

 

[Noname Given]

Except the Ba'ul aren't badass evil monsters here. They are a cowardly race who isn't up for a fight, so they make sure the Kelpians are allowed to exist, but not until the point that they are dangerous. Its only when they are threatened they decide to get rid of the planetary threat. They are likely too scared to take on a Starship and the Federation, IMO.

IDK but surrounding one ship with 10 = "Up for a fight" to me. again, sorry, but their whole inability to kill Saru and his sister with all the tech at their disposal - and further to just let the Discovery power weapons after they showed they had 10 sentry ships ready to engage just strains credibility here. Y

If they kill the two (Saru and his sister) contaminated by contact; and either send the Discovery away claiming "Hey, it's our planet" OR taking them out because they interfered in the affairs of a sovereign world (which Starfleet and the Federation might protest; and place the world 'off limits' from future Federation contact; the whole "genocide" move is unnecessary <--- Plus, that move would probably bring more repercussions from the Federation - again - unless they take out ALL Federation witnesses (IE the Discovery); and they showed they had 10 ships available to do so...

So again, the Ba'ul's actions here (plus te fact they don't seem to be able to kill/or prevent from using their own technology; a single 'matured' Kelpian makes zero sense.