Who is the better captain Picard or Jellico
- Thread starter Gabriel
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The Stargazer was an old ship, and it is very likely the Ferengi that attacked was pretty top of the line, which we have seen do a good deal of damage to a Galaxy class ship. The fact anyone survived that is a tribute to Picard's leadership, which looks like a good deal of his crew did, considering they limped home in shuttlecraft instead of escape pods. Shuttles fit more people.
In his situation with the Cardassians, that was a good gesture of peace... the Romulans respected it in "The Enemy". Cardassians obviously are not as reasonable.
And with the Borg, Picard did have shields up and the Borg beamed to engineering anyway. I don't think there was much else Picard could have done.
Unless you are referring to simply heading back immediately. It's very possible they would have encountered the Borg anyway.
In his situation with the Cardassians, that was a good gesture of peace... the Romulans respected it in "The Enemy". Cardassians obviously are not as reasonable.
And with the Borg, Picard did have shields up and the Borg beamed to engineering anyway. I don't think there was much else Picard could have done.
Unless you are referring to simply heading back immediately. It's very possible they would have encountered the Borg anyway.
And it seems like the cardassians have been acting like that for a long time and so picard probably should have not took a chance with them. And with the shuttle thing. All ships probably carry enough escape pods for the crew, Voyager did. And I’m sure back in the 23rd century they did too So that doesn’t really mean I good portion of his crew made it. In fact no ship has been shown to have enough shuttles to fit its entire crew. So it proves the opposite. Picard probably didn’t have much crew left so shuttles would be enough.
By the way enterprise originally had only 4 shuttles and I’m pretty sure that’s not enough for all the crew.
Same with the refit. And since the constellation class is part of the refit era that class probably has the same amount or a little more
And with the Borg picard should have listened Guinan since it was her neck of the woods and she would know more that him. In the end it worked out because the federation finally started to improve the defensive and weapons systems on their ships.
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Picard's tactical MO throughout TNG was:
- Usually WON'T fire back until Shields are down (Hell he did that in TNG S3 - "Best of Both Worlds" - He's sitting there as Geordi say's "nutation modulation has failed" and Worf saying: "Shield are being drained 90%...80%..." and Picard STILL doesn't give the command to fire until Worf exclaims - "Shields have failed...")
- Usually doesn't return fire at full power.
Sorry, but that doesn't say 'competent' to me - it says "Hey, the crew is expendable as my personal principles are more important to me then those I command; and I'm sure MY crew is fine with that..."
Yet he'll betray these principles at the oddest of times! Like in Journey's End where he's prepared to beam people away against their will only to be stopped by Wesley Crusher!
In the show I don't see that criticism of Picard's battle tactics that much... they generally refer to Picard as a great captain. In BOBW maybe he was waiting for a good shot because once you start firing then they adapt.
He puts the crew's safety first usually, even forced to fire in that episode where they accidentally kill the creature attached ot the ship... Galaxy's Child I think.
He puts the crew's safety first usually, even forced to fire in that episode where they accidentally kill the creature attached ot the ship... Galaxy's Child I think.
Or maybe he wouldn't have had to face this problem to begin with. Remember that they only brought him on board because of Beverly's insistence and Picard is powerless when confronted with Beverly's decisions.
I wonder how honest he is when he reports these kinds of things in his log...
Picard: Brought a borg on board today... Didn't want to but the redhead was intransigent!
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I still think the idea that the virus would have really ended the Borg threat is a bit fanciful, given that even Hugh's individuality only seemed to affect at most a handful of ships. They've been around for thousands of years; I'm sure one of the species they've assimilated invented firewall software.
I like that! A borg collective with a firewall.
Note that in Voyager they did FOUR times, the borg decimating virus!!! (Infinite Regress, Child's play, Unimatrix Zero, and Endgame) They really liked that theme!
Not to mention the Nanoprobes that could be used to pretty much anything. I was half expecting an episode where Seven would heal one of Janeways carbonized pot roasts with an injection of nanoprobes!!!
I kept getting a feeling of deja vu.
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I disagree. The way I interpreted it was that it would have had an addictive narcotic-like effect on the Borg thereby drawing more and more of them into it. Very good chance they would never have even recognized it as a threat. And going by the context of what they actually knew at the time there was every reason to believe it would have worked to some degree. The only basis I can see to think that the virus may have ultimately been overcome lay in the introduction of the Borg Queen in First Contact, however, it still could have devastated, crippled, their efforts to assimilate the galaxy.
They did the math and created a projection therefore it was not unfounded.
Well at least Hugh would look a little less creepyJellico would have told Hugh to put on a uniform because he prefers a certain formality on the bridge
He would have told him:" Hugh and only Hugh can prevent forest fires." Hugh would have brought that cryptic message to the Borg and that would have puzzled them for generations.
Riker, in that final speech when they were being frank with each other, was speaking as the voice of the writer (God) verbalizing who Jellico was over his two-episode arc.
By your very point you’re suggesting that he was arrogant and everything else Riker said, just that you attribute it to the circumstances, not who he is normally.
That's possible, but unlikely. We got nothing throughout his entire arc suggesting this wasn't him all the time. When someone shows you who they are believe them. His not "having time to go on honeymoon with the crew" was a test he failed. That he phrased it that way alone is a clue to that, never mind the reality of HIS relationship with HIS crew.
Yet Picard went into it with a lighter touch asking for the impossible but not demanding it, and Geordi gave it his all for the captain.
How often are characters asked if they want to save the day? That wasn't what made him the way he was. If anything, it was a huge step up for him from Excelsior to Galaxy (and flagship), and with a people he specialized in. To me, this was him in his element.
The Enterprise crew by that point was used to saving the universe year after year. Jellico's challenge wasn't to get then to do it again but to do it while dealing with a problem caused by Jellico.
Picard had to get 1) a new crew, 2) on a new ship, 3) who didn't know him, 4) and who did see him act strangely, 5) to follow an order that seemed suicidal, 6) on their first mission out of spacedock. Picard captained-up and made it happen. Credit where due.
Jellico needed Riker for best likelihood of his plan succeeding. As has been said repeatedly (by me alone at least four times in this thread that I can remember), he's given due credit for not being as "small minded & petty & awful at command" as you claim everyone is claiming he is. But if the question is "who's the better captain"....God I feel like such a dork having this conversation right now....then the answer is not Jellico.
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He was talking about the 2364 crew who wasn’t use to saving the universe year after year. Jellico did not cause a problem he just ran a tighter ship.
You know I have a hypothesis. I think all the people who have voiced there dislike for jellico do that because they know they could Never work hard enough to achieve his standards most of the time Which by the way were reasonable if the crew can’t handle pressure then they shouldn’t wear the uniform
And we have no strong evidence that this is him all the time. Maybe had decided to have a firmer hand because of Geordi and Riker.
In the beginning he was nice with Riker before Riker started questioning his lawful orders and at the end he started to warm up to Geordi
Yes a huge step from pretty ship to ugly ship that is really just a flying hotel
And at the end of the day he got the results. Would you rather him be “nice” and fail
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