Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x05 - "Saints of Imperfection"

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Death and resurrection is in the Starfleet job description.

See new worlds. Meet new life. Might die. Then get resurrected by SCIENCE STUFF.

 

[Paul755]

Still don’t like how much of an open secret Section 31 is.

Burnham monologues too much I think.

I am intrigued about the possible time travel aspect of the Red Angels.

Liked the way they brought back Culber. But you gotta think he probably somehow brought something weird back with him.

Probably give this a 7 outta 10. Not as good as eps 1,2 and 4. But way better than ep3.

 

[Enterprise1701]

Why the bloody hell didn't May's kind just open a portal to another dimension and expel Culber there?

Way to go, May, for being the worst describer ever.

And what has Culber been eating all this time he was trapped in mycelial space?

 

[cooleddie74]

Yeah, Section 31 having it's own small starship is one thing. Being more well-known in the Federation than James Bond is in a casino is starting to be a bit much. ENT and DS9 portrayed the organization properly, as very quiet and operating well within the shadows, manipulating events with a scarcity of agents coming to the surface much less flashing their badges at Starfleet officers to boast about how badass their job is.

I hope we see less of it as the season progresses or that it at the very least slinks back into the shadows and Georgiou, Ash and Leland will be the only agents we'll see. But I doubt it.

 

[Lord Garth]

Death and resurrection is in the Starfleet job description.

See new worlds. Meet new life. Might die. Then get resurrected by SCIENCE STUFF.

"We're Starfleet Officers. Weird is part of the job."

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Yeah, Section 31 having it's own small starship is one thing. Being more well-known in the Federation than James Bond is in a casino is starting to be a bit much. ENT and DS9 portrayed the organization properly, as very quiet and operating well within the shadows, manipulating events with a scarcity of agents coming to the surface much less flashing their badges at Starfleet officers to boast about how badass their job is.

I hope we see less of it as the season progresses or that it at the very least slinks back into the shadows and Georgiou, Ash and Leland will be the only agents we'll see. But I doubt it.

Section 31 being an "open secret" espionage organization reminds me of the 1980s Mission: Impossible revival where enemy agents and their mothers knew about the IMF and Jim Phelps. In one episode, the "villain" even pulls up Jim's IMF file on his computer.

 

[cooleddie74]

Tiffany Case(*pulls out James Bond's Playboy Club membership card): "You just killed JAMES BOND!!!"

Bond: "Is that who that was? Well, I guess that just goes to show noone's indestructible!"

Tiffany Case: "You just don't kill James Bond and wait around for the police to arrive!"

 

[Tim Thomason]

I mean, the Discovery's spore drive is super-top secret already, and the crew at large are all Medal of Honor winners entrusted to keep the existence of alternate universes a secret. Maybe Cornwell and other shady admirals are okay with allowing them to know of the existence of Section 31, especially since they were pushing them to work together.

31 agents were also at one point stationed on Discovery (black badges), so I wonder if the show will ever acknowledge this and what happened to those guys.

Pike is possibly the most decorated Starfleet Captain in Starfleet right now, probably more laudable than Kirk, Sisko, Janeway, and perhaps even Picard. So, he may have run across Section 31 in all sorts of other adventures before, although I assume he's not aware of just how far their black ops go.

The Official Timeline as espoused by Starfleet seems to be something like this: Captain Georgiou was taken prisoner by the Klingons, believed killed. Captain Lorca commanded the Discovery, until he went insane from PTSD (Officially, Officially, KIA) and was killed by Burnham somehow. The Discovery was believed destroyed, but was in fact crippled and turned up nine months later, where they were publicly instrumental in getting a peace agreement with Chancellor L'rell. Unofficially, the installation of L'rell and Ash Tyler (as Voq the torchbearer?) was known by Starfleet Captains. Georgiou was rescued by Starfleet late in the War, and entered retirement.

 

[Lord Garth]

Section 31 being an "open secret" espionage organization reminds me of the 1980s Mission: Impossible revival where enemy agents and their mothers knew about the IMF and Jim Phelps. In one episode, the "villain" even pulls up Jim's IMF file on his computer.

Nothing beats a A View to a Kill, where Roger Moore says "I'm James Bond", and some stupid Cop sarcastically says, "Well, I'm Dick Tracy and you're still under arrest!" before Roger Moore (I'm not calling him Bond) makes a run for it.

 

[LizStargaryen]

The pacing of the episode was all off. It seemed like they warned Burnham and the others like 20 times that "you have to leave now".

Thanks, I thought I was the only one.

Pacing is everything in storytelling. I found it very difficult to suspend my disbelief that spacetime on the bridge was equivalent to spacetime in engineering and elsewhere below decks. Perhaps during my second viewing, I will tell myself "come on, Liz, the mycelial network exists outside of quantum reality." This way, my brain will be able to accept that the 10 minutes or less of Pike/Leland/encroaching doom on the bridge happened during the 20-30-forever minutes below decks with Tilly trying to convince Mae not to kill Mycelial!Culber, then allllll thatttt tiiiiime they spent talking in Engineering while the ship was breaking apart.

They could have given us a line or two from Saru referencing his loss of fear, given his dramatic transformation at the end of "An Obol for Charon." Perhaps I missed something, and I know he's the focus again next ep, but I'd hoped to see it.

I'm with everyone else in being a little tired of Burnham's monologues. I think they're supposed to be the equivalent of captain's logs, but if so, they should follow the tried-and-true format a bit more.

Now that I've ranted enough, the good stuff included:
--The "Spock shuttle" chase. I laughed so hard!
--Seeing Georgiou again. I know that a lot of fans don't care for the character, but I love Michelle Yeoh.
--Tyler. Again, I'm comfortable being in the minority and not minding him. He's in the vein of a ton of other sort of drippy Trek characters in the 90s. If you were OK with Julian Bashir and Harry Kim, give him a chance. It's still early days.
--A toned-down Tilly. She seemed a little less histrionic here and we got to see what makes her shine. I thought her scenes with Mae, Stamets and Burnham were all good this time.
--CULBER. CULMETS. Loved the organic transporter. Can't wait to see how post-Mycelial!Culber develops. Hope they don't drop it next episode like they did with Saru.

Rating: 7/10, my first of the season. So far, it's been all 8s and 9s. They won't get a 10 from me this season until they actually produce Spock.

Next week's Saru-centered, so I doubt he'll show up then. Episode 7 better bring it!

 

[Lord Garth]

--A toned-down Tilly. She seemed a little less histrionic here and we got to see what makes her shine. I thought her scenes with Mae, Stamets and Burnham were all good this time.

I hadn't even thought about this but you're right. The fact that she didn't jump out to me in a bad way in this episode and that I didn't even bother to mention it means they got her at the right level.

 

[Borgminister]

Provincial, indeed... Really, really well scored, directed and produced. I'm as flummoxed as McCoy would be at the mycelial transporter, but this was super-quintessential TREK. Powerful story plus effective plot line setup. Really, really, REALLY strong 9. A 10 has to be a masterpiece, and as solid as this feature was...

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Death and resurrection is in the Starfleet job description.

Wanted:
Person with adventurous spirit, to fill much sought after position on Federation Starship

Key criteria:
- Must have bachelors degree or diploma from Starfleet Academy in any field
- experience with MS Office (especially Excel) and LCARS
- Type 2 phaser license
- Probationary or full Starship driving license
- Must be okay with dying and being resurrected
- Must be okay with being stuck in time loops

If this sounds like you, please send your application with cover letter to hr@starfleet.org

*no working visas*

 

[Greg Cox]

I hadn't even thought about this but you're right. The fact that she didn't jump out to me in a bad way in this episode and that I didn't even bother to mention it means they got her at the right level.

I love the bit where she explained that a type-three phaser was more powerful than type one or type two because, well, three is a bigger number. I also liked the bit about "fall in" being military-speak for get behind me . . .

 

[Turtletrekker]

I love the bit where she explained that a type-three phaser was more powerful than type one or type two because, well, three is a bigger number. I also liked the bit about "fall in" being military-speak for get behind me . . .

I love both of those bits. Tilly has become not only one of my favorite characters of this show, but of Star Trek overall.

 

[Kor]

A few random observations... For me this didn't quite hit a 7 overall. I was hoping the mycelial network would quietly go away, so I wasn't too thrilled with exploring it and its magical powers even more.

I find MuGeorgiou to be an interesting character. I thought she was great here, and I look forward to seeing more of her.

I feel like the, ahem, search for Spock is starting to drag out a little too much.

Kor

 

[Amaris]

Well, that certainly was a new episode!


GREAT
* Culber's back, and it's about damned time! Stamets reaction hits the top of the "great" list here. ♥
* Tilly and MaeShroom's friendship is adorable. I hope they find a way to reconnect.
* Anson Mount is still killing it as Captain Pike.

GOOD
* Former Emperor Georgiou is a little softer around the edges. Plus, it's impossible for me not to like Michelle Yeoh.
* The special effects sequences for the doorstop maneuver into the Mycelial network were well done.

MEH
* No Spock again? This is getting a bit tedious.
* I'm tired of the holographic communications. I know, personal nitpick, but I just don't like them. They feel wrong.
* The Ash/Burnham relationship. I cannot get into it, and when they are together, I tend to sigh a lot. There's no chemistry here, none.

BLEH
* Section 31 itself, including Leland. Don't like it. At all.
* Flashing badges like it's going out of style. Some secret organization you have there.
* The tractor beam sequence felt like pointless padding.

Culber's back, so this gets a higher rating than I would have given it otherwise because I've been asking nay demanding this. Now, if they would have kept Culber from returning, I'd have tanked it, so this was crucial in the grade.

That said, combining everything together, it gets a Genuine 6 from me this week.

 

[Xerxes82]

This was pretty good. I love Tilly and Stamets, so everything there was right in my wheelhouse. The S31 stuff didn't suck, but it does kind of make 31 out to be much more well known than they probably should be. Although that could be going somewhere as well, who knows.

Bonus points for any scene with Michelle Yeoh. She's clearly having a blast, looking sexy as hell, and bringing some interesting depth to the former Emperor (shouldn't it be Empress? Or is that too gendered?). I'm tempted to bump up my valuation of any episode she appears in by a full point just for the leather pants.

Not the best Disco, but solid. This season has been doing a much better job of making me feel for the characters and remain interested in the plots than the first. Keep up the good work!

 

[Kor]

I suspect that something will go south with S31, and Admiral Cornwell decides to shelf the whole thing. A century later, it's completely forgotten.

Kor

 

[cooleddie74]

Although I could see Section 31 being behind the intelligence and research that led to the Hansen expedition to find and study the Borg. For all we know Section 31 picked up on stories about the Borg from El-Aurian survivors and other aliens who spoke of a mysterious cybernetic species that could destroy entire worlds and may even have had access to the classified 22nd century files on Enterprise NX-01's run-in with dangerous cybernetic aliens that could transform humans into one of their own.

Would I prefer to see Section 31 all but disappear into the shadows for a century? Definitely. But their existence would help explain events like the Hansen mission and how the Federation knew of certain species years or even decades before Starfleet would.