when did TOS take place, 23rd century or 22nd century

[Marsden]

Here's a thought: What if these were actually TWO people in-universe?

1. Lt JG Saavik who is a recent Academy graduate, half Romulan and Spock's protege. The emotional turmoil got to her and she went on shore leave after ST2
2. Lt Sa'vique is a more experienced officer and full Vulcan, who was posted to the Reliant and got rescued by Enterprise. Kirk got to know her a bit before she and David Marcus were reassigned to the Grissom.

Is there anything in the films that would contradict this theory?

Good point - Sa'vique (while not as inexperienced as Saavik) is still a young Vulcan and susceptible to inappropriate behaviour or a smug attitude form time to time (heck, many elder Vulcans have been seen to portray the latter!)

Purely going by what we see on screen though, what exactly did she do for teenage Spock that is so extraordinary - rub his finger? Since the pregnancy scene in ST4 was deleted, we really don't know what she did to Spock to calm him down. Vulcans are touch telepaths after all, so she may have been able to transfer some of her emotional control to him.

It was a worthy effort, Mytran. Worthy. No need to blame yourself before its failure.

 

[F. King Daniel]

It wasnt just a recast, Nimoy turned a fiery character into an automaton. A huge shame. I wonder how the films would have played out if Nimoy showed Curtis Wrath of Khan and she played the part more passionately?

 

[Mytran]

It was a worthy effort, Mytran. Worthy. No need to blame yourself before its failure.

Thanks, but I'm not sure I did.

Is it a far fetched theory? Of course!
But unlike other instances of recasting and trying to justify the changes in-universe, the two-Saaviks theory fits the onscreen events without resorting to extraordinary circumstances (just an odd coincidence).

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Of course! But the question was why (in universe, presumably) was there was such a dramatic difference in appearance between the Saavik in ST2 and the Saavik in ST3.

I hope you're also developing explanations as to why the Romulan Commander in "Balance of Terror" looked so much like Sarek, and why Sarek looked so different in the flashback in STV, the Kelvin Universe movies, and DSC.

And why Stonn looked so much like another Romulan from "Balance of Terror."

And why the Harry Mudd of DSC looks unlike the Harry Mudd of "Mudd's Women" and "I, Mudd."

And why the scarred Captain Pike of "The Menagerie" only looks a bit like the Captain Pike we see in flashbacks in the same episode.

And why Admiral Komack looks so much like Admiral Westervilet.

And why Nurse Chapel looks so much like Number One and Laxwana Troi.

And why Mr. Leslie looks so much like Connors from "Mudd's Women." And why he's killed in "Obsession" and seen walking around the hallways later in that same episode.

And why Mea-3 from "A Taste of Armageddon" looks so much like Philana from "Plato's Stepchildren."

And why Dr. Ann Mulhall from "Return to Tomorrow" looks so much like Dr. Miranda Jones from "Is There in Truth No Beauty?" and a young Dr. Pulaski.

And why Yeoman Mears from "The Galileo Seven" looks so much like a space hippie from "The Way to Eden."

And why Angela Martine is called "Teller" when she returns in "Shore Leave."

And why Kirk has blue eyes, and thicker eyebrows and lips in the Kelvinverse. And why their Spock's voice is much higher. And why Scotty is slighter of build. And why Uhura has a lighter skin tone. And why Sulu suddenly looks Korean instead of Japanese. And why Chekov has curlier hair. And why Carol Marcus is suddenly British.

And why Spock, Pike, and Number One all look different in DSC than they do in TOS or in the Kelvinverse.

I mean, if you're going to get this caught up in rationalizing the casting of one character in-universe, you might as well take this thing all the way.

 

[Christopher]

It wasnt just a recast, Nimoy turned a fiery character into an automaton. A huge shame. I wonder how the films would have played out if Nimoy showed Curtis Wrath of Khan and she played the part more passionately?

Couldn't it just be that Saavik clamped down more tightly on her emotions in the wake of Spock's death as a way of keeping her grief in check? Lots of humans close off emotionally as a response to depression or grief; surely it makes perfect sense for a Vulcan to do so as well.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I hope you're also developing explanations as to why the Romulan Commander in "Balance of Terror" looked so much like Sarek, and why Sarek looked so different in the flashback in STV, the Kelvin Universe movies, and DSC.

And why Stonn looked so much like another Romulan from "Balance of Terror."

And why the Harry Mudd of DSC looks unlike the Harry Mudd of "Mudd's Women" and "I, Mudd."

And why the scarred Captain Pike of "The Menagerie" only looks a bit like the Captain Pike we see in flashbacks in the same episode.

And why Admiral Komack looks so much like Admiral Westervilet.

And why Nurse Chapel looks so much like Number One and Laxwana Troi.

And why Mr. Leslie looks so much like Connors from "Mudd's Women." And why he's killed in "Obsession" and seen walking around the hallways later in that same episode.

And why Mea-3 from "A Taste of Armageddon" looks so much like Philana from "Plato's Stepchildren."

And why Dr. Ann Mulhall from "Return to Tomorrow" looks so much like Dr. Miranda Jones from "Is There in Truth No Beauty?" and a young Dr. Pulaski.

And why Yeoman Mears from "The Galileo Seven" looks so much like a space hippie from "The Way to Eden."

And why Angela Martine is called "Teller" when she returns in "Shore Leave."

And why Kirk has blue eyes, thicker eyebrows, and lips in the Kelvinverse. And why their Spock's voice is much higher. And why Scotty is slighter of build. And why Uhura has a lighter skin tone. And why Sulu suddenly looks Korean instead of Japanese. And why Chekov has curlier hair. And why Carol Marcus is suddenly British.

And why Spock, Pike, and Number One all look different in DSC than they do in TOS or in the Kelvinverse.

I mean, if you're going to get this caught up in rationalizing the casting of one character in-universe, you might as well take this thing all the way.

It was the Augment Virus. (it's always the Augment Virus)
Except for Connors and Leslie(s). They're clones.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Nobody needs to explain differences in JJ-Trek and STD except the lawyers.

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It's a long video (but worth it) that explains rights issues between CBS and Paramount. And it explains that STD is set in an entirely separate universe that is contractually not allowed to have any actual features in common with pre-JJ canon.

But CBS deliberately blurs this absolute legal separation and falsely implies that their so-called "prime" universe is the TOS universe. They have to deceive us in an effort exploit the devotion that real Star Trek earned.

 

[Timo]

Or, in other words, they have deceived those lawyers, with their full consent, on an issue that neither side gives a flying fuck about. Legally, DSC could be a Flintstones prequel if it that helped facilitate matters. This has no bearing on what DSC is in terms of Star Trek continuity.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

Nobody needs to explain differences in JJ-Trek and STD except the lawyers.

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It's a long video (but worth it) that explains rights issues between CBS and Paramount. And it explains that STD is set in an entirely separate universe that is contractually not allowed to have any actual features in common with pre-JJ canon.

But CBS deliberately blurs this absolute legal separation and falsely implies that their so-called "prime" universe is the TOS universe. They have to deceive us in an effort exploit the devotion that real Star Trek earned.

Except Midnight's Edge don't know what they're talking about. They misconstrue little factoids in ridiculous manners and make up stories around them. It's clickbait aimed at angry fanboys who want to hear that Discovery is somehow less legitimate than the Trek they like - and they get YouTube ad money for it.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

The video does know what it's talking about. And STD is not connected to the TOS universe. It's a complete re-do. Which is fine if they'd be honest about it.

 

[johnnybear]

I hope you're also developing explanations as to why the Romulan Commander in "Balance of Terror" looked so much like Sarek, and why Sarek looked so different in the flashback in STV, the Kelvin Universe movies, and DSC.

And why Stonn looked so much like another Romulan from "Balance of Terror."

And why the Harry Mudd of DSC looks unlike the Harry Mudd of "Mudd's Women" and "I, Mudd."

And why the scarred Captain Pike of "The Menagerie" only looks a bit like the Captain Pike we see in flashbacks in the same episode.

And why Admiral Komack looks so much like Admiral Westervilet.

And why Nurse Chapel looks so much like Number One and Laxwana Troi.

And why Mr. Leslie looks so much like Connors from "Mudd's Women." And why he's killed in "Obsession" and seen walking around the hallways later in that same episode.

And why Mea-3 from "A Taste of Armageddon" looks so much like Philana from "Plato's Stepchildren."

And why Dr. Ann Mulhall from "Return to Tomorrow" looks so much like Dr. Miranda Jones from "Is There in Truth No Beauty?" and a young Dr. Pulaski.

And why Yeoman Mears from "The Galileo Seven" looks so much like a space hippie from "The Way to Eden."

And why Angela Martine is called "Teller" when she returns in "Shore Leave."

And why Kirk has blue eyes, thicker eyebrows, and lips in the Kelvinverse. And why their Spock's voice is much higher. And why Scotty is slighter of build. And why Uhura has a lighter skin tone. And why Sulu suddenly looks Korean instead of Japanese. And why Chekov has curlier hair. And why Carol Marcus is suddenly British.

And why Spock, Pike, and Number One all look different in DSC than they do in TOS or in the Kelvinverse.

I mean, if you're going to get this caught up in rationalizing the casting of one character in-universe, you might as well take this thing all the way.

I thought Sarek as played by Jonathan Simpson did look like Mark Lenard but all the others are just coincidences!
The fact that none of our beloved characters in other shows look like Shatner, Nimoy or Hunter is obvious in the long term as they're another quantum reality, while Saavik probably just slimmed down her katra off screen!
JB

 

[F. King Daniel]

The video does know what it's talking about. And STD is not connected to the TOS universe. It's a complete re-do. Which is fine if they'd be honest about it.

I know some of their sources. Trust me when I say they're clueless. Even when they get the odd tidbit right, they misunderstand it entirely.

ME think Disco is made under some kind of Bad Robot license because the uniforms have a similar delta pattern to the first 2 Kelvin movies. Yet... why isn't Bad Robot mentioned on the Discovery credits? That would be a requirement if they were using their stuff. They also do not understand how IP's work and merge it with their feverish nonsense about alternate universes.

It's dumb conspiracy theories. And this from someone who likes Disco but considers it a reboot from TOS. I get that these are their creative choices, not legal requirements.

 

[Tenacity]

Trust me when I say they're clueless

It's difficult to trust you on this particular point when you are so blatantly wrong.

If you are personally uncomfortable with others pointing out inconvenient truths, this doesn't make those others pointing them out "clueless,"

 

[1001001]

Midnight's Edge...yeah right.



They're a total joke.

Anyway, have we answered the initial question?

 

[Timo]

Question? I thought it was a vote. And quite possibly it may still swing in favor of 22nd century, which only needs 44 more votes now. Or there may be a legal challenge on the outcome, or something. Give it time. ("200 years? That ought to be just about right.")

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Gabriel]

Question? I thought it was a vote. And quite possibly it may still swing in favor of 22nd century, which only needs 44 more votes now. Or there may be a legal challenge on the outcome, or something. Give it time. ("200 years? That ought to be just about right.")

Timo Saloniemi

Is that a guess ?

 

[Gabriel]

Except Midnight's Edge don't know what they're talking about. They misconstrue little factoids in ridiculous manners and make up stories around them. It's clickbait aimed at angry fanboys who want to hear that Discovery is somehow less legitimate than the Trek they like - and they get YouTube ad money for it.

I don’t even really like discovery that much and I believe you. Although it is slowly warming up to me.
But I think they should have done a show 3-5 decades after archer because we haven’t seen the time from 2160s-2220s very well (that if you believe TOS is in the third century which I do)

 

[Nyotarules]

Thanks, but I'm not sure I did.

Is it a far fetched theory? Of course!
But unlike other instances of recasting and trying to justify the changes in-universe, the two-Saaviks theory fits the onscreen events without resorting to extraordinary circumstances (just an odd coincidence).

To be fair the whole concept of Star Trek is far-fetched but we still enjoy it!

They have to deceive us in an effort exploit the devotion that real Star Trek earned.

Wow, its a religion now? 'Oh hail Real Star Trek, we who have come to watch, salute you!'

 

[1001001]

 

[ZapBrannigan]

View attachment 8091

Is that the Christine Chapel?