“Their tiny male minds”

[Jackson_Roykirk]

So it’s ok for lines to be sexist, racist, homophobia because it’s on tv. Got it.

It’s ok for a character from — say, for example — the Mirror Universe because people from the Mirror Universe are supposed to be not as enlightened as the other humans. They are usually bad people who are expected to act badly, such as being sexist.

I mean, not all TV and movie stories are full of perfect characters doing nice things. Some stories have characters who aren’t so nice.

 

[Spot261]

All of you saying “Why should I be outraged”... you shouldn’t be. Just imagine the outrage there WOULD be if the genders were switched around. That’s what’s outrageous. The blatant double standards.


This being a week after the token white guy was killed for being an overconfident bumbling idiot. God forbid the producers made that character a woman.

You mean like Landry?

Ok, bored by this now.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

She is? I certainly didn’t see any of that in last week’s episode.

They are touting her as a lead in a series to be streamed sometime in the future. I don’t recall any information on the precise role Mirror Georgiou will be playing. Just because she is going to lead a Star Trek series, that does not necessarily make a character a paragon of virtue. In fact, as a Section 31 operative, don’t you think she would need to get her hands a lot dirtier than other past leads?

I do think they will give her a redemption story of sorts. She will probably eventually come out not as bad as she is today.

However, that doesn’t mean she isn’t bad today.

 

[Campe]

I do think they will give her a redemption story of sorts. She will probably eventually come out not as bad as she is today.

However, that doesn’t mean she isn’t bad today.

I think she’ll be more of an anti-hero. I agree there’ll be some sort of redemptive arc, but I still think she’s going to have to do some terrible things for the good of the Federation. I’m thinking Jack Bauer level stuff here. Probably even worse.

 

[Midquest]

^ The above two posts might be the most reasonable takes on Georgiou I've yet heard. This thread giveth in more ways than one.

 

[Campe]

^ The above two posts might be the most reasonable takes on Georgiou I've yet heard. This thread giveth in more ways than one.

Well, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. And somebody has to get their hands dirty in order to keep a paradise a paradise.

 

[fireproof78]

Well, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. And somebody has to get their hands dirty in order to keep a paradise a paradise.

But, but, Gene's Vision!!!!!?

 

[Campe]

But, but, Gene's Vision!!!!!?

And that’s why many fans will hate it. I don’t love the idea of Section 31 as a whole but the idea of a show where there really are some dark deeds happening for the good guys is a fascinating idea.

 

[Jayson1]

It's possible she will be Vic Mackey from "The Shield. He sometimes solved crimes but he was also a criminal and all sorts of terrible things as well and he was never really given a redemption arc. In fact everyone around him suffered because of him. Also Walter White. He was the lead and people was compelled by his story and even felt for him at time but he was never a good person, really even from the start. Then you got Elliot on "Mr Robot" who basically brought down society and the lead of "Legion" became a rapist in the season final.

My hope is this show is going to actually be the first really R rated very adult Trek. Something that "Discovery" was sort of suppose to be but ended up becoming a little more traditional Trek. In fact you got a Section 31 show and a edgy Picard show I think is aimed for adults and the cartoon is going to be ran by one of the "Ricky and Morty" guys. Then you toss in the Tarantino Trek movie and I see Trek trying to actually become more edgy than it has been before. Should kind of consider "Discovery" their trial run for the edgy stuff they really want to do.


Jason

 

[MakeshiftPython]

And yet she's pitvoting over to a protagonist who is being promoted as a positive role-model (aka strong woman).

I take it you’re unfamiliar with the concept of bad guys being lead characters in shows, unless you think Walter White was an all around good guy.

 

[fireproof78]

And that’s why many fans will hate it. I don’t love the idea of Section 31 as a whole but the idea of a show where there really are some dark deeds happening for the good guys is a fascinating idea.

I think there is a need to get past the idea that a protagonist in a show is not automatically the hero or does everything that is admirable, nor is the presentation of their actions a sanctioning.

And, just to demonstrate this fact, what about the following examples?

 

[KennyB]

After centuries of sexism being okay towards females, I think my masculinity can handle that

Some obviously can not..........Very fragile they are

 

[Midquest]

Like I've said elsewhere, I also think there's something to be said for the fact that while Georgiou is clearly bad, she's also a product of a universe in which bad is pretty much the only ethical position most people seem to get to occupy. It's not clear that fear, hate, and extremism are choices so much as what people in the MU are indoctrinated into from birth. So, sure, she's evil. But can an evil person, exposed to love, kindness, and personal freedom...change? I don't think she's going to become a saint, but I do suspect she will learn to see the monstrosity of the way of life she was raised into, develop a sense of remorse (hidden away except in moments of high interpersonal drama), and set out to do the hard things not for infamy but as a way to atone for her past life. I think Michael will help her be better.

That's my running theory.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Did my ears deceive me or did Georgiou really make a reference to the Klingon chancellor’s “tiny male minds”?

What the actual f?

I know we’re in the middle of a forced diversity/woman matter more than men movement but how is this acceptable?

Imagine the UPROAR if a man had said that about a bunch of female Klingons.

Oh, wow, the clearly evil genocidal dictator was a meanie to the menfolk. Film at eleven.

Is there a point to this thread other than to nurse your fragility and provoke a fight? Closed.