Spoilers Do you wish SPOILER had lived? (S2E1 Brother)

[Timo]

Oh? What else could you call the bit where she goes "World War III - you know, the nuclear cataclysm on Earth, your native planet and mine, that left 600 million dead and governments destroyed"?

She's simply the only one with the balls to do that with Pike.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Oh? What else could you call the bit where she goes "World War III - you know, the nuclear cataclysm on Earth, your native planet and mine, that left 600 million dead and governments destroyed"?

She's simply the only one with the balls to do that with Pike.

Oy vey.

MANsplain. It's like, right in the word, Convolutus. It's done by a man to a woman, not the other way around.

 

[SolarisOne]

I hold out hope that idiots can change their ways.

You can cure ignorance. You can't cure stupid.

 

[Timo]

Oy vey. MANsplain. It's like, right in the word, Convolutus. It's done by a man to a woman, not the other way around.

Umm, no. It's done by a woman to a man. Calling it mansplaining, that is. But people of all genderly persuasions do it, such as Burnham here.

It's pretty simple. People love to hate. And it's both fashionable and sensible to hate others, although the specific fashions can change. In the 1930s, it was Jews. In the 1980s, it was Gays. Today, well, we have more choices. And better media.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Umm, no. It's done by a woman to a man. Calling it mansplaining, that is. But people of all genderly persuasions do it, such as Burnham here.

It's pretty simple. People love to hate. And it's both fashionable and sensible to hate others, although the specific fashions can change. In the 1930s, it was Jews. In the 1980s, it was Gays. Today, well, we have more choices. And better media.

No, it's when a man condescendingly explains something to a woman while assuming she isn't knowledgeable of the subject. To give you an example, you once mansplained menstruation to a woman on this forum, which was spectacular in its lack of self-awareness.

Me condescendingly explaining this to you is not an example of mansplaining, because a) you're also a man, and b) you've actually demonstrated that you are clueless about what the word means.

I have a feeling you were about the expand on how you think men are the real victims today on par with Jews and gays there at the end but thought better of it because it would be stupid.

 

[Tuskin38]

oof, I can't believe someone had to be explained what mansplaining means.

Pike is in on a big secret: the Red Things. Everybody on the Discovery is in on a big secret: the Spore Drive. And neither knows about the other big secret

Based on the dialogue, and his reactions, Pike seemed to know the spore drive existed, but not exactly how it worked.

I can't see Starfleet telling him to take over discovery without a basic briefing packet.

Unless he hadn't had time to read it over yet.

 

[Nerys Myk]

oof, I can't believe someone had to be explained what mansplaining means.


Based on the dialogue, and his reactions, Pike seemed to know the spore drive existed, but not exactly how it worked.

I can't see Starfleet telling him to take over discovery without a basic briefing packet.

Unless he hadn't had time to read it over yet.

Did a rewatch last night and as you said, Pike was aware of the spore drive.

 

[Timo]

Me condescendingly explaining this to you is not an example of mansplaining, because a) you're also a man, and b) you've actually demonstrated that you are clueless about what the word means.

I'm just pointing out that "what the word means" is an insult unto itself, and obviously not applicable anywhere in the real world as per the Burnham example (which, while fictional, is true to the real world in all its pertinent parts). If you reserve for yourself the right to be insulting, I guess there's little to be done about it, what with you being mod and all. But a look in the mirror is what anybody pretending to be using these newfangled insults "correctly" ought to take.

The manners of people nowadays...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Timo]

Based on the dialogue, and his reactions, Pike seemed to know the spore drive existed, but not exactly how it worked.

I guess this is the clever part - we can't really tell whether he knew. And whether the other heroes knew whether he knew. And whether they figured out he didn't, only a bit too late, or not...

I can't see Starfleet telling him to take over discovery without a basic briefing packet. Unless he hadn't had time to read it over yet.

We still don't quite know why he took over that ship specifically. Probably he was told to - but was he given the humansplanation for it by his bosses or not? They'd know that reaching the Red Things would require the drive - but they couldn't know if reaching them was to be viable at all, not initially, not with them lighting up and then disappearing.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tuskin38]

obviously not applicable anywhere in the real world as per the Burnham example

The Burnham example wasn’t an example.

She wasn’t being condescending. Also she's Female.

 

[Hythlodeus]

was he given the humansplanation for it by his bossesi

you REALLY don't understand how this works, do you?

 

[fireproof78]

Oh? What else could you call the bit where she goes "World War III - you know, the nuclear cataclysm on Earth, your native planet and mine, that left 600 million dead and governments destroyed"?

She's simply the only one with the balls to do that with Pike.

Timo Saloniemi

Um, no.

It's just condescension or an example of "as you know."

 

[DaveyNY]

Did a rewatch last night and as you said, Pike was aware of the spore drive.

One would think he'd have to be if StarFleet tells him to commandeer the ship.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Connelly

It's spelled Connolly.

Do I wish he had lived? He was an idiot, and he killed himself.

 

[The Wormhole]

One would think he'd have to be if StarFleet tells him to commandeer the ship.

Not to mention Pike indicates he's aware Lorca was from the Mirror Universe ("I have been briefed on the classified information regarding your last captain"). It would be odd indeed if Starfleet told him that but nothing about the Spore Drive.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Oh? What else could you call the bit where she goes "World War III - you know, the nuclear cataclysm on Earth, your native planet and mine, that left 600 million dead and governments destroyed"?

I'd call it exposition for the benefit of the audience who may not be 100% familiar with the history of the Star Trek universe or how much of an impact it had.

Pike clearly didn't give a shit that Burnham just told him information he already knew, why should you?

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

oof, I can't believe someone had to be explained what mansplaining means.

Two things:

1. People are correct in saying Burnham's condescending behavior is not the same as mansplaining. Mansplaining is not simply being condescending, but also doing so while thinking a woman needs a little extra help understanding practical situational and factual things that (in the man's mind) "men can understand those things better than women".

2. Having said that, some women can be condescending toward men in a "womensplaining" sort of way, but instead of the woman being condescending toward the man when explain practical situational issues, that woman condescendingly explains an emotional situation to a man, because (in that woman's mind) "men just can't grasp those things as well as a woman", so they might automatically think a man always needs extra help in understanding those situations.

But no -- Burnham wasn't doing either of those. She was simply being condescending.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Based on the dialogue, and his reactions, Pike seemed to know the spore drive existed, but not exactly how it worked.

I can't see Starfleet telling him to take over discovery without a basic briefing packet.

Unless he hadn't had time to read it over yet.

He did seem to act incredulous when the tardigrade was mentioned. However, it's plausible for Pike to have general knowledge that the tardigrade was involved, but still react that way when getting briefed first-hand on it, as if to say "Yeah -- a tardigrade? What's THAT all about?"

It was probably just a way the writers saw that allowed for some organic exposition.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

She was simply being condescending.

I'm all for calling people out for being condescending regardless of their sex, but care to explain how Burnham was being condescending?

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

I'm all for calling people out for being condescending regardless of their sex, but care to explain how Burnham was being condescending?

My Bad. Maybe "condescending" is not the right word. And I'm talking about the character in general, not just in "New Eden".

I was thinking about the walk-and-talk scene between Burnham, Pike, Connelly, and Nhan when the latter three first beamed aboard. Burnham got a few sarcastic digs into Connelly, belittling him a bit and pointing out that she was more on top of the situation than he thought. However, I think she was just defending herself from his smug attitude. You're right -- that wasn't exactly being condescending.

Having said that, Burnham's demeanor can be seen to some as being condescending -- especially when she is being blunt and direct, but that is intentionally done by the writers as a function of being raised on Vulcan. Spock in TOS could occasionally sound condescending as well, as did Sarek in "Journey to Babel".