THE ORVILLE S2, E5: "ALL THE WORLD IS BIRTHDAY CAKE"

[Mudd]

Good point. Since we know astrology does not work, statistically with a planetary population that big, there should be a lot of people born under other signs that commit criminal acts or acts of violence. That should instantly disprove their belief in astrology.

You know, in America we imprison people of certain backgrounds to a massively disproportionate degree, despite knowing that people who don't fit that profile commit a lot of crimes. A lot of us who are outside the "criminal profile" indulge in a lot of confirmation bias.

That might have been an interesting issue for the writer to have spent a little time on, here. The writer did not.

 

[eschaton]

You know, in America we imprison people of certain backgrounds to a massively disproportionate degree, despite knowing that people who don't fit that profile commit a lot of crimes. A lot of us who are outside the "criminal profile" indulge in a lot of confirmation bias.

That might have been an interesting issue for the writer to have spent a little time on, here. The writer did not.

Seth needs to stop writing almost all the episodes. I mean, it's fine if he wants to be showrunner, producer, and leading man, but no matter how humble he might be, the other people in the writer's room are going to have a hard time tearing apart his bad ideas because it's challenging the boss.

 

[Noname Given]

I liked parts of this one; but the whole premise that "The Galactic Union" just immediately answers, and makes VERY hurried First Contact with any species that sends a signal <--- Yeah, not very smart for an Advanced Galactic Union (IMO).

Now to be fair, I also thought the way TNG showed the Federation handling First Contact (in the TNG ep. "First Contact") was overboard as well (IE sending in anthropologists disguised and passing as citizens overboard too, as I don't care HOW ADVANCED a species is, if they're 'like us' - they'd not take kindly to secret surveillance.)

But yeah - If this is standard FC procedure for the Union, I'm amazed they don't get involved in a conflict; or leave the newly contacted Civilization with a bad impression of the "Galactic Union". I mean hell, in this specific situation they have a civilization that does public (and other) broadcasts; so you would think they'd at least monitor those (Like they started doing but only AFTER the situation went south) broadcasts (and hack into systems here and there anonymously) to help the First Contact go smoother; OR perhaps see a reason why they should avoid Contact, etc.

Plus, (unless I missed some dialogue stating all the guards weapons were non-lethal), Kelly and Bortus KILLED a number of Guards during their escape attempt; so if that's the case, the Leader just giving them a pass on that and letting them return to the Orville after Ed and Co.'s fake star solution rings strange.

I do like that they at least mentioned: "Hey, what happens if/when these people find we faked them out/lied to them..."; and gave the honest answer of "Who knows? Well cross that Bridge when it comes..."

Overall I'll give this one a 6 out of 10 for some interesting moments here and there.

 

[Owain Taggart]

This was a rather dark episode without much humour, but I liked the storytelling.

 

[Mudd]

Seth needs to stop writing almost all the episodes. I mean, it's fine if he wants to be showrunner, producer, and leading man, but no matter how humble he might be, the other people in the writer's room are going to have a hard time tearing apart his bad ideas because it's challenging the boss.

I'd agree if most or a high percentage of the shows he's written were not shows I liked a lot. If the show had a lot of bad scripts, there would be a pressing need for change. I don't think that it has had many, so...

 

[eschaton]

I'd agree if most or a high percentage of the shows he's written were not shows I liked a lot. If the show had a lot of bad scripts, there would be a pressing need for change. I don't think that it has had many, so...

My point isn't that he can't write. It's that he can't be objective about his own scripts, and it's probably hard for others to shoot him down when he has a bad idea.

 

[Nakita Akita]

It amazes me that no one thought to point out that Kelly and Bortas were born on different planets and that therefore different constellations would have been in the sky at the time. Oh well.

They sort of did.
The prefect character said he didn't care where they were from, they were still "grebnats" (or whatever) on their planet.
And they had to go to prison because every born at that time had to.

 

[Amaris]

I think it did a fine job of pointing out that even among advancing and advanced civilizations, there is no such thing as a utopia. There is often a darker side somewhere. This episode seems to touch on the idea that being born with characteristics beyond your control is enough to either propel you to success or condemn you to misery, and that the prison system has no desire to reform, but merely to control and maintain those populations. I see it as allegorical to the United States and how for all of its advancements, it can still be held back just as easily by one belief system that demonizes a specific group of people.

I enjoyed this episode.

 

[JD]

That would be nice. I also might have Garrett Wang play an ensign...

He's 50 now, I would think that by age a person would have either gotten at least gotten one promotion, or probably would have given up and moved on to something else.

This was an OK episode, not horrible but definitely not one of their best.
I can see wanting to do a story about this kind of prejudice, but astrology as the source didn't really work for me here.
I still find it a bit odd that they wouldn't just let them take Bortus and Kelly and leave. Obviously The Orville crew had no problems with them, so wouldn't it have just been better for everyone if they just got them off the planet as soon as they found out when they were born?
My mom watched it with me and she pointed out something I kind of have mixed feelings on. Once the baby was born outside of the bad sign, you would think the mother would have been happy she didn't need to be raised in the camp. On one hand, I can understand her not wanting to give up her baby, but I would have thought that she would have been happy to know that her baby would be able to be free, and live a comfortable life outside of the camp.
It also seemed like a really bad idea to put the solar sail so close to the planet, I expected them to put farther out toward the edge of the solar system. The planet seems to be pretty much at our tech level right now, and it seems to be pretty easy for us to look at what's in orbit around our planet. With the sail so close they probably wouldn't even need that powerful of a telescope to see it, you could probably almost see it with a handheld telescope.
I hate to be one of those people, but I watched Discovery immediately after this, and for the first time I actually liked that one a lot better. This was probably the most significant difference in quality they've had for me since the started.

 

[Admiral2]

My point isn't that he can't write. It's that he can't be objective about his own scripts, and it's probably hard for others to shoot him down when he has a bad idea.

Fair enough, but then you have to ask yourself how many bad ideas have actually made it to screen. If it's a small percentage, it can't just be because Seth is policing himself. I have no problem believing he's willing to listen to advice and criticism from the other writers.

Remember his goal with the show: he wants to create a science fiction series that can stand on par with a franchise he loves, Star Trek. He's not just creating another Family Guy or Ted. He's going for something specific, and I'm sure he's soliciting all manner of input to make sure he gets it right.

 

[Mudd]

My point isn't that he can't write. It's that he can't be objective about his own scripts, and it's probably hard for others to shoot him down when he has a bad idea.

No doubt. However, you've identified a "problem" that only is a problem if a fair number of the scripts he'd written for the show were bad.

I think almost all the episodes so far have been quite good. You may think differently. Others do. But the fact that this week's script was not up to par, if one feels that it was bad (I feel that it was bad) is not enough of a reason in and of itself to decide that MacFarlane writing most of the show is "a bad idea."

He's not the first showrunner to write most of the scripts for his show - Kelley, Straczynski, Sorkin are all well-known for it - although he's probably one of rather few. A number of creator-written shows have been quite good, successful and popular.

BTW, the debate is proceeding from kind of a false premise - according to the sources I can find, out of the five episodes so far this season MacFarlane has written only two - the carry-over from last year, "Ja'Loja," and this one.

Last season he wrote 8 out of 12, or two-thirds.

 

[rocketdave]

So, I've been moderately entertained by The Orville, but I don't exactly love the show. I'm sure I'm far from alone when I say that I expected it to be more of a comedy and then was surprised - not unpleasantly so - when it was clear how much of a sincere Trek-pastiche it wants to be. I confess I've probably allowed my opinion of the series to be somewhat tainted by my annoyance at seeing videos and comments (mainly on YouTube), calling it "the real Star Trek" or "more Star Trek than Star Trek," etc., which I realize is not a fair way of me to judge the show itself.

Well, one way The Orville isn't very Star Trek is the way the Union allows crews to wander into a first contact situation almost totally blind, whereas the Federation would typically do a thorough study of a society beforehand (except in episodes like the aforementioned "Justice").

That lack of preparedness feels more in keeping with Stargate, though it was more forgivable in that franchise since they were contemporary humans and lacked a lot of the resources that the Federation or Union has. When that thought popped into my head, it suddenly occurred to me that perhaps the more apt franchise that The Orville might be compared to isn't Star Trek, but Stargate. However, I personally feel like what The Orville is attempting to do - combine serious sci-fi stories with humor and more "down to Earth" characters - is something that Stargate pulled off far more successfully.

 

[Jayson1]

I don't know if it's a running joke but I do like how they keep bringing in familiar faces for the Admiral's that Ed has to talk to. This week it was Ted Danson and you got to wonder why he even did it other than he was helping out a friend or something like that. It makes me even kind of think of Murphy Brown's secretaries on "Murphy Brown."

Jason

 

[Amaris]

I do find it interesting that the Union allows for immediate contact because otherwise the Krill might reach them first. This is how Ed explained why they were heading directly in to make first contact rather than holding back for any length of time to study the situation. They did seem to gather as much data as they could before they sent the shuttle planetside, though it clearly wasn't much.

 

[Mudd]

Well, one way The Orville isn't very Star Trek is the way the Union allows crews to wander into a first contact situation almost totally blind, whereas the Federation would typically do a thorough study of a society beforehand (except in episodes like the aforementioned "Justice").

...or most of the original Star Trek.

Jesus Christ, "the Federation" barely existed during TOS. They still don't seem real clear on how "Starfleet" overlaps with this vague civilian government; the terms are used almost interchangeably.

 

[rocketdave]

...or most of the original Star Trek.

Jesus Christ, "the Federation" barely existed during TOS. They still don't seem real clear on how "Starfleet" overlaps with this vague civilian government; the terms are used almost interchangeably.

Okay, that's very true; I guess I was mainly thinking of TNG, since that's obviously the main source of inspiration for this show. I know I probably shouldn't expect the characters to abide by the same rules as on Star Trek, though when they've copied so much from that franchise, it's kind of easy to get confused (I recall seeing a review of the first episode where the reviewer wondered why the Orville crew didn't just beam off the planet when they were under fire from the Krill). I can see how having a Prime Directive might provide an impediment to telling stories like this. Still, as others have said, it does seem rather ridiculous that they wouldn't at least have monitored TV signals from the planet to get a sense of their culture prior to making contact.

 

[Amaris]

Okay, that's very true; I guess I was mainly thinking of TNG, since that's obviously the main source of inspiration for this show. I know I probably shouldn't expect the characters to abide by the same rules on Star Trek, though when they've copied so much from that franchise, it's kind of easy to get confused (I recall seeing a review of the first episode where the reviewer wondered why the Orville crew didn't just beam off the planet when they were under fire from the Krill). I can see how having a Prime Directive might provide an impediment to telling stories like this. Still, as others have said, it does seem rather ridiculous that they wouldn't at least have monitored TV signals from the planet to get a sense of their culture prior to making contact.

Ed did seem determined to jump right in both feet first. Claire raised the point in the shuttlepod as they descended to the planet's surface, and Ed's response was essentially "nothing," adding, "that's the fun part."

 

[Chilli]

It's kinda a fine line with Orville episodes for me. The show is obviously not aiming to be cutting-edge hard scifi, so I go in with a "relax, it's just a TV show" attitude, ignore a lot of stuff that is obviously stupid (like how Xelaya has super-gravity, but physics are obviously the same as on Earth - water being poured works exactly as on Earth, ...), and pretend it was an old-timey show from when scifi writers simply didn't know any better, and accept it all as Rule of Cool.

But every once in a while, an episode has a concept that is just so silly, it makes me go "oh come on". About a Girl in S1 was the first ep that did this to me (You have a species that lacks sexual dimorphism, and yet their society has an earth-like binary view on gender? This was silly from the beginning, but did you have to do a whole episode about it?) ... and this one definitely hit that same spot where it's just not motivating me to suspect disbelief sufficiently.

 

[Mudd]

I have friends ask me why the Orville characters can't "beam" - BTW, non-Trekkies look confused sometimes when you refer to "the transporter," it's just that thing that "beams" people. It's Trek's signature contribution to space opera, and people think of it when they think of Trek..and when they see someone teleporting, they think of Trek. Which is almost surely the real reason that MacFarlane skipped it.*

*It also makes no sense for a culture that has teleportation to do most of what Starfleet does the way Starfleet does it, but that's another matter.

 

[Nakita Akita]

I thought it was s good episode.
I liked it.
To me it seemed as though they were putting down religion in a broader statement.
That aside, the people on the planet seemed about as advance as Earth right now and I'd say that there are a lot of crazy religious beliefs on Earth right now.
So I didn't find it odd that the people on the planet followed a religion.

I'm glad they didn't turn it into the USA and the
Disparity of treatment between some people and not others. I liked the concise line drawn; these people are bad, these people are good.

Other people mentioned Character development, to me it seems development should take time. Also I'm not really into character development myself.
They aren't real people.

I liked this episode way better than last week's Sad Fest.
The part that made me sad this week was that I pretty much missed the ending.
The dog had to go outside.