Hey not a bad idea.
It could be worse.
Someone could resurrect the thread about the name of the 12/13 original Constitution class ships in TOS
I’m joking relax
when did TOS take place, 23rd century or 22nd century
- Thread starter Gabriel
- Start date
I’m joking relax
I mean, I'm not UNhappy...I have lost the will to live.
I hope you're all happy.
...So, Richard Arnold attributing his opinions to Gene Roddenberry, then?
Yeah, same here, as I stated above.
You guys have missed a gregorian calendar reference:
From Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn
McCOY: 'Beware Romulans bearing gifts.' Happy Birthday, Jim.
KIRK: Romulan Ale! Why, Bones, you know this is illegal.
McCOY: I only use it for medicinal purposes. I got a boarder ship that brings me in a case every now and then across the Neutral Zone. Now don't be a prig.
KIRK: 2283.
McCOY: Yeah, well it takes this stuff a while to ferment.
Sure seems to me like Kirk is reading a vintage date from the bottle. So we can say that the movie takes place at least by 2283, or possibly even later than that given McCoy's line about it taking a while to ferment.
This wouldn't quite work if "Space Seed" took place in 2266 and TWOK is 15 years later, which would be 2281.
Alternately we could assume 2283 is a stardate meaning the ale was bottled sometime after "The Squire of Gothos" which would make it about 15 years old, and McCoy's line works. Though it seems weird to me to express a vintage to a specific date rather than a year. But, who's to say, I guess? Maybe that's just how Romulan Ale rolls.
--Alex
From Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn
McCOY: 'Beware Romulans bearing gifts.' Happy Birthday, Jim.
KIRK: Romulan Ale! Why, Bones, you know this is illegal.
McCOY: I only use it for medicinal purposes. I got a boarder ship that brings me in a case every now and then across the Neutral Zone. Now don't be a prig.
KIRK: 2283.
McCOY: Yeah, well it takes this stuff a while to ferment.
Sure seems to me like Kirk is reading a vintage date from the bottle. So we can say that the movie takes place at least by 2283, or possibly even later than that given McCoy's line about it taking a while to ferment.
This wouldn't quite work if "Space Seed" took place in 2266 and TWOK is 15 years later, which would be 2281.
Alternately we could assume 2283 is a stardate meaning the ale was bottled sometime after "The Squire of Gothos" which would make it about 15 years old, and McCoy's line works. Though it seems weird to me to express a vintage to a specific date rather than a year. But, who's to say, I guess? Maybe that's just how Romulan Ale rolls.
--Alex
There were decades of fan debate over whether "2283" was a Gregorian date, a stardate, a Romulan date, or something else -- and whether McCoy's "it takes a while" line was literal or sarcastic. After all, the then-popular SFC dating scheme would've put TWOK in the early 2220s.
There still is debate of this sort, but it doesn't sound plausible that the writers themselves would ever have been thinking in terms of stardates or anything like that. They had done the "300 years in the future" thing in the previous movie already, and were borrowing material from a wholly different fandom work that supported this thing, not from SFC.
If 2283 is a Gregorian year, then it can't be the current year of Kirk wouldn't be alarmed by it. But is it in the future or the past? Ales might indeed need to ferment before being at their best - is Kirk alarmed that he needs to wait until 2283 before opening the bottle?
Timo Saloniemi
If 2283 is a Gregorian year, then it can't be the current year of Kirk wouldn't be alarmed by it. But is it in the future or the past? Ales might indeed need to ferment before being at their best - is Kirk alarmed that he needs to wait until 2283 before opening the bottle?
Timo Saloniemi
Yeah I think it’s 2285 in TWOK so maybe Kirk doesn’t realize that alcohol needs time to ferment. I mean we don’t see him drink so much.
What!
It's a pretty direct assertion. They contradicted themselves.
At the time, the reasoning advanced for not picking a time-frame is that Roddenberry didn't want to have to debate the likelihood of various technologies existing within a given era.
Too-specific, and contradictory, assertions popped up in a number of scripts over the three-year run of the show.
The 28th century endpoint comes from "The Squire of Gothos," which places itself in at least the 27th century but possibly also in the 28th.
Yeah, the whole "Romulan Ale from 2283 thing" is a whole other kettle of fish. A while back I saw a debate about it on here that brought in the fact that it was an ale and discussed what the possible fermentation process might be.
Personally, I go with the "McCoy was being sarcastic" theory and assume that he got Kirk a bottle of Romulan Ale from the current year, putting TWOK in March 2283 (I got March by assuming that Kirk's birthday matches William Shatner's). That allows "Space Seed" to be placed approximately 15 years prior, in late 2267 or early 2268 (Because both Khan and Kirk say that it's been 15 years).
Besides, the Romulan Ale wasn't Kirk's main gift. Those were the glasses. The Ale was just so they could have a toast on Kirk's birthday. I doubt that McCoy would get Kirk an ultra-old bottle of Romulan Ale for that. Assuming that the "2283" is a stardate is a neat theory, but then you'd have to explain 1) Why there's no decimal and extra digit at the end, and 2) Why Kirk says it the way we would a year instead of the way he said stardates on the show, like "Captain's Log, Stardate two-two-eight-three-point-six."
Last edited:
Plus, there's Kirk telling Gillian in TVH that by her calendar, he's from the late 23rd Century. That and the title card in TWOK seems to lock in the century pretty definitively.
JQ wins the thread. As a ten year-old kid I thought McCoy was being sarcastic (imagine!). I haven't budged. One of the themes of the scene seems to be that McCoy is sending a not-so-subtle message with his gifts.
Yep. It's the outlier.
When TOS was being made, no one knew when it took place.
I mean how hard is it to figure out a time and stick to it.
As I mentioned, it was Roddenberry's deliberate choice to be non-specific about how far in the future the show was set. He could've easily picked a calendar date, but he didn't want to lock himself down.
Aw, thanks. I'd like to thank the Academy...
Assuming that McCoy is being sarcastic is generally a safe bet. It's one of the things I love the most about the character.
Yeah. I forget where I first read this, but it's also really cool that Spock got Kirk a book to read, and McCoy got Kirk the glasses that would help him read it. Those two make a formidable tag team.
Not very, if that's what you want to do. But Gene Roddenberry & company consciously wanted to keep the time period of TOS vague, so it's kind of silly to criticize them for doing exactly what they wanted to do. The unclear timeframe of TOS is not a bug, it's a feature.
