Same country, same species same ship design elements. While they are across different time they are the same story universe and to me that’s what matters some mistakes made by writers who probably didn’t know or didn’t care. It’s in the 23 century. Because didn’t Spock say in balance of terror that the Romulan war was fought a 100 years ago if tos was in the 22nd century then the war would have happened in the 2060’s. Seems kinda early to take on the Romulan
when did TOS take place, 23rd century or 22nd century
- Thread starter Gabriel
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We were a far different country and people in the late-80's vs. the late-60's. I'm not saying you can't see the shows anyway you like, but for me, they are separate entities.
But we were in a way the same country. But what ever wasn’t there a book that explains it better that was written during tos season 2 after the 200 years comments of season 1
You just got to listen to your heart. That is the way you will get the most mileage out of the things you enjoy.
Now on that we are in total agreement
Khan left Earth in 1996, which was very near the end of the 20th century, and Kirk only said "We estimate 200 years," not "It was exactly 200 years to the day." An estimate of 200 years is entirely consistent with an exact figure of 210 years or so, which was the basis for the Spaceflight Chronology scene. That's more like 240 years after "Tomorrow is Yesterday," of course, but Kirk was joking in response to Col. Fellini's chance mention of 200 years, so exactness is hardly to be expected there. The SFC scene was entirely logical except for the "Metamorphosis" issue. (Although "Space Seed" implied that FTL drive came along as early as 2018, when sleeper ships were abandoned. If "Metamorphosis" had been in 2208, say, then Cochrane would've been 47 when warp drive was perfected, which is plausible; scientists tend to do their greatest work in their 20s or 30s, but maybe it took a couple of decades for Cochrane's theoretical breakthrough to become reality. Although the SFC puts the warp drive breakthrough in the 2050s.)
But I don't get why we're still debating this as if it were an open question; as I said, the issue was definitively resolved when "The Neutral Zone" came out in 1988.
For many of us, the idea is to consider the context of TOS itself (and the TOS movies if necessary), rather than bringing in later Trek series to the discussion.
Kor
Sometimes it is fun to try and see things as the original creators saw them. Before it was a franchise.
Yep, the Chronology has the invention of warp drive occur in 2055 - sort of interesting that it's close to the FC date.
Any effort to retrospectively make all events "fit" is futile, and people here and in earlier similar threads seem to adhere to two points of view: "Even so, it's fun trying to reconcile everything" and "Who cares, each episode is or isn't enjoyable on its own merits."
I tend toward the latter because the original series' creators were sloppy about such things and it didn't hurt the show one bit. Even within a single episode, there can be discrepancies about time spans. [The prototypical example: Trelane in "The Squire of Gothos" learns he's been decorating his "home" in the style of (European) Earth of 900 years ago, complete with harpsichord, yet he causes Uhura to perform the Strauss waltz "Rosen aus dem Süden" (written more than 100 years after the harpsichord became supplanted by the piano).]
I tend toward the latter because the original series' creators were sloppy about such things and it didn't hurt the show one bit. Even within a single episode, there can be discrepancies about time spans. [The prototypical example: Trelane in "The Squire of Gothos" learns he's been decorating his "home" in the style of (European) Earth of 900 years ago, complete with harpsichord, yet he causes Uhura to perform the Strauss waltz "Rosen aus dem Süden" (written more than 100 years after the harpsichord became supplanted by the piano).]
I know it’s in the 23rd century but other have different options I just thought it would be nice to hear everybody’s 2 cents also did they say Georgian dates in discovery. I know that is not the by using new series to justify 23rd same but at least the writer are admitting there mistakes and believe by the end of tos they wanted it to be in the 23rd century, plus by making tos in the 22nd century your putting the Romulan war pretty close to our time. Not a lot of time for them to invent warp drive and then survive a war with a alien more powerful than them
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It's not an error by Trelane because he was on the planet Gothos. If he said it on Earth then it would've been an error. In Space Seed, Kirk was talking to Noonien Singh, an Earth man about time, and in Tomorrow is Yesterday when Kirk responded just about right to the Military officer he was on Earth.
Why not? It's called imagination, like 2015 in Back to the Future Part 2 is what it is, and a 2019 dystopian Los Angeles in Blade Runner; these ideas were made to be within the realm of their own universe and there's nothing wrong with that and I can accept these fantasies but doubting the makers intended it in their own show is not giving these makers much credit. Why can't Star Trek time be in their own world, does it have to fit within our reality???
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Gothos was a rogue planet, lit and heated heated by Trelane, and propelled through space by him as well. Gothos was much closer to Earth when Trelane made his "viewing scope" observations of the Napoleonic era, and much further away (900 light years) when the Enterprise showed up. Trelane puts the whole planet through designer wormholes whenever he wants to travel far in a hurry.
Anyway, my vote is to support The Star Trek Chronology. The first season is 1966 plus 300 years. Do that, and there's enough room for stated pre-TOS history to occur, including the S.S. Valiant reaching the edge of the galaxy 200 years before WNMHGB. And matching up with the TNG-DS9-VOY universe is a nice little bonus.
Anyway, my vote is to support The Star Trek Chronology. The first season is 1966 plus 300 years. Do that, and there's enough room for stated pre-TOS history to occur, including the S.S. Valiant reaching the edge of the galaxy 200 years before WNMHGB. And matching up with the TNG-DS9-VOY universe is a nice little bonus.
It's weird to think of Trek as just two hundred years in the future now, as to me it's always been the twenty third century! not sure what year I thought it was as a child though...
JB
JB
Perhaps we should refresh our memories.
Note that Data tells Ralph Offenhouse that the year is 2364 by Ralph's calendar. Data implies that it is NOT Data's calendar. Note that Data doesn't seem to break the fourth wall and address the audience directly.
There is no direct evidence which of many possible calendars is used when Data tells Ralph the year is 2364.
But in "Encounter at Farpoint":
So according to Data's calendar Data graduated and was commissioned sometime between '78.00 and '78.99.
In "Datalore":
and:
If Data was commissioned a 2nd lieutenant three (3.00 to 3.99) after graduation which was sometime between '78.00 and '78.99, that would be sometime between '81.00 and 82.98. If Data became a lieutenant commander 10.00 to 12.99 years later it would be sometime between '91.00 and '95.97, and that would be the earliest possible date range for "Datalore".
If Data spent four years (4.00 to 4.99) at the Academy before graduating between '78.00 and '78.99 he would have entered the Academy between '73.01 and '74.99. If Data entered the Academy immediately after being discovered and activated, "Datalore" 26 years (26.00 to 26.99) later would be sometime between '99.01 and '01.98 of the next century.
So if Data graduated in 2278 "Datalore" would happen in 2291.00 to 2295.97, or in 2299.01 to 2301.98.
If Data graduated in 2378 "Datalore" would happen in 2391.00 to 2395.97, or in 2399.01 to 2401.98.
And those date ranges are totally inconsistent with "The Neutral Zone" happening in 2364. Therefore, Data probably used the current official United Earth calendar in the first season of TNG, and in "The Neutral Zone" told Ralph Offenhouse the date in the calendar that had been used in Ralph's era. Then after the revived dead people returned to Earth they became celebrities, and groups which wanted to make Ralph's calendar the official United Earth calendar used their popularity to get the calendar change passed by the United Earth government. And then dates given in later TNG era shows and movies were dates in the new official United Earth calendar.
So after seeing one official Earth calendar replaced by another one in TNG I soon noticed the use of such inconsistent dates in TOS that several different Earth calendars had to be used by different people.
I think there are only about a half dozen dates in Star Trek that are directly said to be dates AD or BC. All of the rest are in unspecified calendars and thus do not have to be dates AD or BC.
The "In the 23rd century" (and thus sometime between 2201 and 2300 in the calendar used) title in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan may refer to either the date that Saavik took the the Kobayashi Maru test or to the hypothetical future date when Saavik would become a starship captain, the future date that her Kobayashi Maru test was set in. Thus "Space Seed" should have been about 15 years earlier than sometime between 2201 and 2300, and thus sometime between about 2186 to 2285, or else possibly 15 years before the date of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan that is itself decades before Saavik becomes a captain sometime between 2201 and 2300. If Saavik is expected to be a starship captain 20 years in the future, Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan could be sometime between 2181 and 2280, and thus "Space Seed" could happen sometime between 2166 and 2265.
You remember "The squire of Gothos" incorrectly.
And:
Jaeger believed that because Trelane's knowledge of Earth seemed centuries out of date, and since they were 900 light years from Earth, Trelane must have been viewing Earth using some sort of viewing scope like device using radiation that traveled at the speed of light. Jaeger obviously didn't stop to try to figure out which century of Earth history Trelane's decorations resembled or to count how many centuries in the past that was.
No doubt Jaeger and Kirk later realized that Trelane must have had some other method of learning about Earth. Trelane couldn't have seen events that happened at night on Earth, nor events which happened on the far side of Earth though the planet, nor events which happened indoors, and Trelane would have a very bad viewing angle for many events which he could see. And Trelane knows words and names in Earth languages and can speak sentences in Earth languages.
So Jeager and Kirk's error was more an error in imagining the method Trelane might have used instead of an error in historical chronology - they assumed Trelane was studying Earth 900 years in their past because it would take electromagnetic radiation 900 years to reach Gothos, not because they believed Trelane's Earth items were 900 years out of date.
If the voyage took 251 years and Khan slept in suspended animation for 200 years, the time dilation would have made 200 years pass on the Botany Bay while 251 years passed on Earth, and time would be passing 0.78 as fast on the Botany Bay as on Earth. I think that the Botany Bay would have to travel over 0.50 times the speed of light to have that much time dilation.
So if it took years just to travel from one planet to another in Earth's solar system, and if DY-100 class ships like the Botany Bay could reach over 0.50 the speed of light, those really long interplanetary voyages within our solar system must have been to planets at least half a light year from the planets known to us.
That seems rather improbable.
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Ehh that isn’t very canon but I guess it could work. Auto after several years of watching Star Trek I doubt I will ever convince that they were Ch occurring the 23rd century and the next generation and so on was in the mid to late 24th century. Also memory alpha does recognize the 200 year thing As not a mistake just bad writing in not being able to pick a time period. And plus I wouldn’t really work because in voyager which takes place a few years after the next generation They clearly say that in the first season it’s 2371. We wouldn’t have this problem if they were just to give the writers a factsheet stating what year it is on the show but what ever.
Though as you pointed out in an old thread, Blish's adaptation of "Miri" also implied they were in the 27th century. I'm curious if Blish noticed the discrepancy, if he cared, or what year HE thought it was.
Probably because of the constant retconning you've been drawn in during TNG era which was the Apex of popularity of the time; which bogus encyclopedias and chronology books including the tv shows drilling this retroactive messaging over and over where it becomes gospel. I have no effect on this brainwashing because I was born at the end of the Star Trek phenomena which galvanized by the popularity of Star Trek: The Next Generation.
