Who is the better captain Picard or Jellico

[Gabriel]

It wasn't just Riker.

No one did like Jellico, due to the fact that he messed up everything as soon as he came on board the ship. If he had been a bit smarter and listened to his senior officers, then he would have had a chance to get the respect from the crew.

His actions when it came to that fourth shift were downright stupid and didn't accomplish anything, it just messed up something which had obviously functioned excellent for a very long time and all of his actions did only create confusion, distrust and anger among the crew.

Therefore my comparision in my first post with that hockey coach who almost managed to ruin a whole team during one season.

When it came to the situation between Data and Worf, it was different. First of all Worf kept nagging on Data many times in front of other crew members, something that Riker didn't do to Jellico. Second, Data never acted like an elephant in a glass shop during his stint as Captain. Data had a problem with Worf while Jellico had a problem with the whole crew (except Data due to the fact that Data had no emotions, maybe Jellico should have been better suited with a ship full of androids or robots).

I wouldn't like to go to war with a captain like Jellico because he would mess up everything with orders, contra-orders and screaming and end up getting the ship being blasted to pieces because he would be to thick-headed to understand that a certain action would be doomed to failure.

As I wrote before, I've also had a similar boss once at a place I worked who managed to destroy the good atmosphere among the people there. That was not a pleasant expreience.
Fortunately I was lucky to find another job.

Well then stay away from all navy captains because they are a lot like jellico. They may not be as a hard a** as him but they won’t so much if they hurt your feeling unless they are out of line. And first of all he isn’t thick headed. He probably has more combat experience than Riker so if any think Riker shouldn’t have been so resistant to him. By the way i don’t care if the boss hurts peoples feelings including mine if he gets the job done. And at the end of the day that what jellico did and saved picard’s a**. Also he had to be a hard a** he needed to turn the enterprise from a science ship that happen to have weapons to a warship that happens to have science labs. But at least you have reasons I swear there are people who just hate Jelicoe because he isn’t picard. By the way Riker went against him at least twice when in public and Geordi as well. So you have to Remember Jellico was given command because he could be best friends with the crew but to get the job done. Also Jellico was nice at first he just got the way he was when people did not respect the chain of command and follow his orders without whining. There been other times on voyager and deep space nine and other Series that officers follow command orders but under protest and noted in their log.

 

[Gabriel]

Basically, 1st officer does what he is told and security officer, in this case one with lower rank, gets to voice out his opinions.

That’s what the names imply: CO commands and XO executes the command. Technically had a security command the security department so he can speak for the department and let the captain know when one of his actions may be Dangering the ship but only to an extent. Not anywhere near insubordination. And worf speaks his mind more and sometimes he is just ready to just blast away the ship when you can do things diplomatically. Also Picard has been known to run a looser ship than other captains that why the crew spoke up alot.

 

[Anthony Dawson]

Jellico got the job done so I can't say he's a bad captain, but we know Picard can step up to the plate in the crisis of a battle or even a war (eg against the borg, or stories of his captaining the Stargazer)

What puts me firmly on team Picard is he seems a more capable diplomat and manages his people better. Running something as large as the Enterprise D is inevitably a group task and I've found an organisation works much more efficiently when the boss is liked and respected rather than feared and despised. Though I won't deny the latter can work, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Having said that, it's often down to the circumstances. When Picard was unavailable Starfleet considered Jellico the right choice and on this occasion it worked out.

 

[Lynx]

Consider this...what if the boss you described above had brought the company to the verge of bankruptcy, and someone was brought in to try to save it? Do you think the new boss would want to entertain discussion of the pros and cons of current policies and procedures, or do you think their primary focus would be saving the company as quickly as possible and then making nice with you?

The funny thing is that I did encounter that situation just a few years later.
The company I did work for had problems and a new boss took over.
Now this guy was a real bada**. He was tough but fair and he did know how to motivate people.It was like "we are in this s**t together and I expect everyone to work hard to get out of this mess". And we did!

He wasn't Picard but he wasn't Jellico either. This guy could explain why this and that change was necessary and why it had to be the way he wanted it, wether we liked it or not and that made us motivated because we knew that we would be succesful in the long run.

 

[Gabriel]

The funny thing is that I did encounter that situation just a few years later.
The company I did work for had problems and a new boss took over.
Now this guy was a real bada**. He was tough but fair and he did know how to motivate people.It was like "we are in this s**t together and I expect everyone to work hard to get out of this mess". And we did!

He wasn't Picard but he wasn't Jellico either. This guy could explain why this and that change was necessary and why it had to be the way he wanted it, wether we liked it or not and that made us motivated because we knew that we would be succesful in the long run.

That’s what I feel jellico was trying to do. He needed to turn that ship from a science ship that had weapons into warship that had science labs. Because apparently the Cardassians do not play around. Because he see her besides Pikard not really many members of the senior staff have combat experience. And by combat experience I mean long-term conflicts not just their occasional battle with a hostile enemy. The only ones on the list is worf and possibly Riker and Picard. So in the end he was just trying to make the ship more efficient. Now if I were him maybe it would’ve been a tad nicer but not too much. I’m sure he didn’t mean to be So rude by the fact that he was nice I. The beginning but he needed enterprise ready and he couldn’t wait for peoples ego to recover. Also you have to remember Jellico is warrior he’s not a diplomat unlike Picard who seems to find a good balance. So Jellico won’t be saying things as nice or give people time or slack as picard does. In the end he can be hard to work for but he does get the job done. Although jellico probably should’ve took in a class or something on diplomacy and crew resource management but hey nobodys perfect.

 

[Paradise City]

Well, Jellico typically commands the Ciaro. An Excelsior class ship. In that he probably is sentry for the trouble spots bordering the Federation. Certainly his gunslinger diplomacy has alot to do with brinkmanship and deceit whereas Picard, if he could, would forge a meeting of minds. Picard's is a much more good faith diplomacy, more patience. Judging from what Troi said about how 'sure of himself' he was, diplomacy isn't JE's strong suit.

Picard is on the "flagship". His is a multipurpose role including being an advanced, patient diplomat.

So you might say that EJ was the hard-headed captain that would master any military situation, his name might be feared as a no nonsense type. But he'd more at a loss in respect to painstaking diplomacy. Where that is Picard's natural habitat.

Picard is the perfect guy the Feds would want to put on the Federation shop window. He represents what the Feds think they are. Jellico is the guy they call upon in an emergency.

 

[Gabriel]

Well, Jellico typically commands the Ciaro. An Excelsior class ship. In that he probably is sentry for the trouble spots bordering the Federation. Certainly his gunslinger diplomacy has alot to do with brinkmanship and deceit whereas Picard, if he could, would forge a meeting of minds. Picard's is a much more good faith diplomacy, more patience. Judging from what Troi said about how 'sure of himself' he was, diplomacy isn't JE's strong suit.

Picard is on the "flagship". His is a multipurpose role including being an advanced, patient diplomat.

So you might say that EJ was the hard-headed captain that would master any military situation, his name might be feared as a no nonsense type. But he'd more at a loss in respect to painstaking diplomacy. Where that is Picard's natural habitat.

Picard is the perfect guy the Feds would want to put on the Federation shop window. He represents what the Feds think they are. Jellico is the guy they call upon in an emergency.

and the way he reminds me a lot of naval captains and they weren’t/aren’t much of diplomats etheir. Which can be weird because war is often an extension of diplomacy and politics.
Totally agree with last paragraph jean Luc just about is the captain that best represents the Federation.

 

[Arpy]

If you can't keep your crew together, what does that say about you as a leader? Jellico was NOT simply being by the book but had an attitude problem that kept forcing more of his crew than a good leader should. He didn't rise to the rank of captain by being incompetent, but one wonders 1) how wretched/costly serving under him for years on end would be, and 2) how he'd fare in situations in which more than Cardassian cunning is required to come out alive -- i.e. with Q.

 

[DonIago]

I don't think we had nearly enough time with Jellico to be able to reasonably claim that he had an attitude problem. (shrug)

And if he did, then Our Heroes seemed to have just as much of an attitude problem with him.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I don't think you can compare Starfleet to the real military. When there's not a threat of war their missions are scientific and goodwill missions. And they clearly live in a world with a different military culture.

The Enterprise crew may have gotten a little too used to Picard's 'soft touch'. But also Jelico could have more effectively transitioned them to his way of thinking if he had any kind of read on the crew. And Jelico's little drama act of "You have to be more reasonable to make up for him not being reasonable" was blatantly transparent and had no chance to work.

There are some situations where Picard's trustingness was used against him, like in Next Phase where he got lucky Geordi overheard the Romulans talking about the muon wave. But in any delicate situation where a war could have started, and Picard kept his cool, I imagine Jelico pulling some ridiculous drama stunt like that and going to full blown war.

 

[DonIago]

As I recall, Kirk could be a bit of a hothead at times too...

 

[Gabriel]

I don't think you can compare Starfleet to the real military. When there's not a threat of war their missions are scientific and goodwill missions. And they clearly live in a world with a different military culture.

The Enterprise crew may have gotten a little too used to Picard's 'soft touch'. But also Jelico could have more effectively transitioned them to his way of thinking if he had any kind of read on the crew. And Jelico's little drama act of "You have to be more reasonable to make up for him not being reasonable" was blatantly transparent and had no chance to work.

There are some situations where Picard's trustingness was used against him, like in Next Phase where he got lucky Geordi overheard the Romulans talking about the muon wave. But in any delicate situation where a war could have started, and Picard kept his cool, I imagine Jelico pulling some ridiculous drama stunt like that and going to full blown war.

Well do you know what the picard is the diplomat and jellico is the warrior. Basically if picard fails then it’s up to Jellico. And by the way civilian ships are run and just about the same way as military ships, so the fact that starfleet isn’t very militaristic is not the point. The point is Riker and company were close to being insubordinate. And you know something a factor is they don’t like that Jellico replace picard as captain instead of Riker. So while Jelicoe is not innocent I doubt he has to take the full blame Riker and company they have to take some blame. And you know what a full-blown war was getting close to come out. Jellico didn’t have time to transition the crew as Nicely has he probably would have. I’m sure jellico was not like this on his ship one because I don’t think starfleet we will keep a captain in command of a ship if he got so many complaints. Just like any other ship in this century would. And officers can complain by noting it in their logs. However Riker and company they were acting just a little bit like snowflakes. Also considering the fact that data never really objected to Jellico we can be assured that Jellico was really threatening the ship just stepping on toes. Stepping on toes is not really to wait to go all the time but sometimes in a crunch you need to. I think this qualifies as a crunch.

 

[Arpy]

I don't think we had nearly enough time with Jellico to be able to reasonably claim that he had an attitude problem. (shrug)

And if he did, then Our Heroes seemed to have just as much of an attitude problem with him.

We know he did because that was the point of his arc in the show. When Riker confronts him about it, he doesn’t deny it, he moves on to what he needs.

Well do you know what the picard is the diplomat and jellico is the warrior. Basically if picard fails then it’s up to Jellico. And by the way civilian ships are run and just about the same way as military ships, so the fact that starfleet isn’t very militaristic is not the point. The point is Riker and company were close to being insubordinate. And you know something a factor is they don’t like that Jellico replace picard as captain instead of Riker. So while Jelicoe is not innocent I doubt he has to take the full blame Riker and company they have to take some blame. And you know what a full-blown war was getting close to come out. Jellico didn’t have time to transition the crew as Nicely has he probably would have. I’m sure jellico was not like this on his ship one because I don’t think starfleet we will keep a captain in command of a ship if he got so many complaints. Just like any other ship in this century would. And officers can complain by noting it in their logs. However Riker and company they were acting just a little bit like snowflakes. Also considering the fact that data never really objected to Jellico we can be assured that Jellico was really threatening the ship just stepping on toes. Stepping on toes is not really to wait to go all the time but sometimes in a crunch you need to. I think this qualifies as a crunch.

Picard is a diplomat and a warrior. Some fans just can’t stand that.

 

[Kor]

Jellico's name has always made me think of Jell-O.

So I vote for Picard.

Kor

 

[Gabriel]

Jellico's name has always made me think of Jell-O.

So I vote for Picard.

Kor

Really jell-o. No offense but seems kind of petty.

 

[Gabriel]

We know he did because that was the point of his arc in the show. When Riker confronts him about it, he doesn’t deny it, he moves on to what he needs.



Picard is a diplomat and a warrior. Some fans just can’t stand that.

I don’t think picard would say that. He thinks I’m self as an explorer. As said in nemesis. Now Jellico I doubt he would deny the fact that he’s a warrior.

 

[Kor]

Really jell-o. No offense but seems kind of petty.

It drives me batty.

Kor

 

[Arpy]

I don’t think picard would say that. He thinks I’m self as an explorer. As said in nemesis. Now Jellico I doubt he would deny the fact that he’s a warrior.

And yet he’s captain of the flagship in war whereas Jellico’s maybe hauling cargo around in an Excelsior most of the time. It doesn’t matter what you see y but what you can do. Picard can do more. The one time we saw Jellico he did just well enough but left serious questions behind. Picard I imagine would save the day too with little else in his wake to doubt.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

And yet he’s captain of the flagship in war whereas Jellico’s maybe hauling cargo around in an Excelsior most of the time. It doesn’t matter what you see y but what you can do. Picard can do more. The one time we saw Jellico he did just well enough but left serious questions behind. Picard I imagine would save the day too with little else in his wake to doubt.

I don't remember the Enterprise fighting the Dominion.

 

[Gabriel]

And yet he’s captain of the flagship in war whereas Jellico’s maybe hauling cargo around in an Excelsior most of the time. It doesn’t matter what you see yourself as but what you can do. Picard can do more. The one time we saw Jellico he did just well enough but left serious questions behind. Picard I imagine would save the day too with little else to doubt.

I seriously doubt excelsior are hauling around cargo during war. And even if they were they probably would’ve transferred Jellico to a better ship. And I say saving picards ass with his plan is more than just doing well enough. And the fact that he had to suck up his pride and ask Riker to fly the mission says something about him. Also there is no evidence that the enterprise E ( which is I think what you’re referring to as the flagship during war since the enterprise was never really in any wars) was involved serious in the war. Wow I personally would like to believe that Canon does not say otherwise. It seems like enterprise E was doing what Picard could do best, diplomacy. In insurrection starfleet was having them do diplomatic missions to put out brush fires somewhere during 2375 instead of fighting. We know insurrection takes place before the end of the S9 because they mention they need to get worf back to to ds9 and The end of DS9 worf leaves DS9 for good. It makes sense you want to ship it looks nice and clean during negotiations that way you don’t seem weak. Because if Starfleet sense a battered ship that kind of shows there really are scraping the barrel. Also we saw on DS9 excelsiors fighting.