Who is the better captain Picard or Jellico

I just remember him being a dick in the novels, plus it’s hard not to see him as Kinsey from Stargate.

 

In which novels did you feel he was a dick? I don't recall him being any worse than any other admirals, and perhaps in some regards notably better.

 

Well my mom watched stargate so I’m clueless but jellico did had to contend with Riker arrogance, but he was definitely a hard ass. But he could have given Riker some slack because I mean they don’t just make anybody XO of the federation flagship, so Riker was pretty good. May favorite part is when they drop ranks on each other.

 

Yeah I mean he wasn’t as bad as adm Marta batanides and adm Alynna Nechayev

 

In the New Frontier novels. I did like the Pluto scene in Before Dishonor though.

 

Ah. I haven't gotten into NF and kind of consider it a bit of a branch of its own.

 

It is a good series to get into if you like the Orville and Discovery. That series seems to take aspects from both shows and makes something unique.

 

Nechayev was a great Admiral, probably the best one in the fleet.

 

Certainly the least crazy one, at any rate.

 

I don’t know her handling of the maquis could have been better and see definitely did not like that picard releasing hugh but other that that she wasn’t that bad

 

I can go with that.

 

I really like the episode where she owned her attitude with Picard. It was a bit unfortunate when they kind of backed away from that interpretation.

 

I think that Jellico was a terrible Captain.

He reminds me of an useless hockey coach who once upon a time managed to transform a top team to a bottom team in one only season by acting and behaving in the same way Jellico did, constantly insulting the players, splitting up well-functioned units and making them so insecure and nervous that they hardly dared to pass the puck and on top of that introducing a new playing system which most of the players couldn't and wouldn't adapt to.

No matter that coach was fired after the season, just like Jellico was "transfered" to another ship.

I've also had a similar boss once at a place I worked who managed to destroy the good atmosphere among the people there. Fortunately I was lucky to find another job.

If I had been a crewmember on the Enterprise and Jellico would have been pernmanently instated as the Captain, then I would have requested a transfer to Deep Space Nine.

 

If you were a 1st officer and the ship you are serving got a new captain, which one would you rather serve under? Picard or Jellico?

And if not 1st officer, some other post?

 

Jellico during war Picard during peacetime and long term exploration

 

While he was an hard ass I don’t believe he was a terrible captain. We don’t know his history well and remember the crew was so use to Picard. Also he fussy started be an ass when Riker did not implement the 4 shift rotation. He did that because he gave Riker an order and Riker didn’t follow it. Now while Riker Was right on the fact that it will cause chaos on the enterprise, an lawful order is an lawful order end of story. While the first officer is supposed to keep the captain and crew safe not just blindly follow order he still needs to follow order that are lawful. Another reason why he was an ass is because he thought everyone was like Riker: arrogance. I like Riker but he does come across as arrogance. Riker should have followed the order then after a few days show jellico what trouble it causes. In a way he is guilty of insubordination. If I were jellico I would say: will I know you have been here longer than I have, but an order is an order. If you don’t like call starfleet and take a command opening so you can do your ship just like your want to. Because of rulers additude jellico wrongful assumes that the crew is all full of arrogance people who need to be whipped into shape. And on’t forget he did come up with the plan that eventually saved picard’s ass. One last thing it sounds like you don’t like you think that deep space nine is a bad posting. What’s wrong don’t like Sisko. Although of course I could be wrong

 

Either would be fine with me. I appreciate straight forward treatment. I'm fine with someone who's blunt or abrasive like Jellico, as long as they're honest & reliable, which he seemed to be. If they are both those things, then reasonable can't be far behind, despite how personable people may or may not find them. Honest & reliable people have good sense. So all it will take is time & intelligence to get them to see reason, which is how things eventually turned out for Jellico with the rest of the Enterprise crew, sans Riker. They ended up seeing him become reasonable. Geordi & Data worked fine with him after the command structure was adjusted.

I'm also good with someone who's relatively distant or aloof like Picard, so long as they are fully communicative, & grounded, which he is, as well as honest & reliable. Honestly, it's Will Riker I'd not like serving under. A lot of his posture is false bravado & machismo. He blurs the lines of personal & professional. Every time he's in the captain role, he's completely self-doubting, a good majority of the time, & there's no knowing what will please or displease him. Case in point, Sam Lavelle, a very good officer, if still lacking some confidence, but Will kind of shits all over him for no reason, unlike Worf, who actually really does Sito Jaxa a solid in that episode. I'd like serving under Worf more than Riker. If Sam Lavelle had someone in his corner mentoring him the way Sito Jaxa had, he'd have had just as strong a chance at that promotion imho

 

I'd do what I was trained to do and follow the orders of my superior, raise concerns I may have with them in private, but in public be sure to present a united from, listen to concerns and issues from crewmembers and make the Captain aware of them (again in private), and try to make the change of leadership as smooth as possible. If I was having issues due to a clash in personality I would seek advice and guidance from the ship's counsellor, as well as look for ways to work better with them during whatever time I was serving under them, after all I am a grown-up.

I wouldn't spit the dummy out and moan about them at every opportunity where any junior shipmate might overhear.

 

Thank i have been waiting to for some one to say that. It’s never good for moral to see your captain and F/O fight in public

 

That's what I'm here for

 

Data would agree

Data would agree:

DATA: Lieutenant, may I see you in the ready room?
WORF: Of course.
[now in "Ready room"]
DATA: Lieutenant, I am dissatisfied with your performance as First Officer.
WORF: May I ask in what way?
DATA: You continually question my orders in front of the crew. I do not believe this is appropriate behaviour.
WORF: With all due respect, sir, I have always felt free to voice my opinions even when they differ from those of Captain Picard or Commander Riker.
DATA: That is true. But in those situations, you were acting as Head of Security, not as First Officer. The primary role of the second in command is to carry out the decisions of the Captain in this case, me.
WORF: But is it not my duty to offer you alternatives?
DATA: Yes. But once I have made a decision, it is your job to carry it out regardless of how you may personally feel. Any further objections should be given to me in private, not in front of the crew. I do not recall Commander Riker ever publicly showing irritation with his Captain as you did a moment ago.
WORF: No, sir.

However, in the context of 'Picard v Jellico' I'd also draw your attention to the bolded segment, which implies to me that he does see it as appropriate (where time allows) for the XO to bring objections to the Captain's attention, and for the Captain to consider these objections before coming to a decision. Something that Jellico failed to do on at least one occassion:

RIKER: Captain. Captain.
JELLICO: I believe we're scheduled to arrive at the Cardassian border during delta shift. Please inform the delta tactical officer that I want to launch a class five probe just before we drop out of warp.
RIKER: I was actually going to talk to you about delta shift a little later, sir. Right now, gamma shift will be on duty when we arrive and I will tell Lieutenant McDowell about the probe.
JELLICO: Is there a problem with delta shift, Will?
RIKER: There is no delta shift yet, sir. I have spoken to the department heads about changing from three shifts to four, and they assure me it's going to cause us significant personnel problems.
JELLICO: So you have not changed the watch rotation.
RIKER: I was going to explain this to you after the ceremony, sir.
JELLICO: You will tell the department heads that as of now the Enterprise is on a four shift rotation. I don't want to talk about it. Get it done. Now that means delta shift will be due to come on duty in two hours. I expect you to have it fully manned and ready when it does. Is that clear?
RIKER: Yes, sir. If you'll excuse me, sir. Captain.

Riker is reporting that the department heads are saying that to immediately at no notice change from a three to four shift system would cause disruption, but that he had planned to sit down with Jellico as soon as he was formally in charge (the order was given by Jellico while Picard was still in charge), but Jellico barks at him and insists that the changes be carried out within TWO HOURS (a highly unrealistic and potentially dangerous timeframe IMO) regardless of objections.

 

I think I've said this before but I'll say it again, Jellico wanted too much too fast.

Jellico said he didn't have time for a "honeymoon" with the crew but that doesn't mean the crew can start doing miracles.