The Orville is Overrated Nostalgic Trek Fans

[Amaris]

@BillJ, yes for a moment it did throw me out. And you and others are not wrong: Of course each show will use references that will in time date the show. Each show's aesthetic will reflect - in some way - real world moment. Only looking back, in hindsight, will we see if it holds up still. That's inevitable. But I will say that Seth McFarlane's humor is very specific, very adolescent boyish, self-depracating. It's not situational as most humor in Star Trek is. Meaning most of the time the humor feels as if it just comes up from the situation. That's typically how humor is handled in a drama. The exceptions would be the more comedic episodes that were often seen in DS9 and even then, it just felt different. I remember Edward James Olmos talking about wanting to direct "Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down," the first (and perhaps only) comedic episode of BSG. He was very concerned that the humor stayed situational. In other words, not a stand up routine that had be strung together as a plot.

The Orville still feels like a "dramedy," and the humor feels more specific to McFarlane.

Don't get me wrong, I happily watch The Orville. I enjoy to a significant degree. Its just not as compelling to me. I think someone above said that DSC is trying to be "prestige television." I think they are correct. Some may say that it doesn't succeed. And I can understand that. But, if we are going to pay CBSAA for Star Trek (and I am willing to do so) I expect the very best production quality possible. I pay for Game of Thrones and Westworld and I love the slick, cinematic feel.

The format, feel, agenda, and balance of Star Trek is different from those shows. And as I have said above, everything was not quite as strong as I would have hoped. But all in all, I am very pleased and I am hopeful that they can continue to improve. Looking forward to Thursday!

I think it will work for them. Look at M*A*S*H, a 1970s dramedy set in a 1950s war, with the primary protagonist being a goofball on many occasions, cracking jokes that hailed back to the 1920s. On paper, sounds like it would be a failure. It ended up being one of the most popular television series of the 20th century. It's all in the writing and how the characters play off one another. Orville's writing is still a bit rough, but so was M*A*S*H when it first premiered, but inside of a couple of seasons, the show pulled itself together and rocketed to popularity.

 

[Jayson1]

I actually think it's underrated due to how much it relies on nostalga. Being nostalgic is not a bad thing. People enjoy thinking about happy times and better days. The show has simply packaged that nostalga in away that is more modern in terms of how the characters are not quite as formal I guess you could say. Nobody needs a excuse to come to someones quarters to do crew evalution reports,which is something I have heard the writers talk about. They can just, you know interact like real people and talk about real everyday stuff.


Jason

 

[Jayson1]

I actually think it's underrated due to how much it relies on nostalga. Being nostalgic is not a bad thing. People enjoy thinking about happy times and better days. The show has simply packaged that nostalga in away that is more modern in terms of how the characters are not quite as formal I guess you could say. Nobody needs a excuse to come to someones quarters to do crew evalution reports,which is something I have heard the writers talk about. They can just, you know interact like real people and talk about real everyday stuff.


Jason

 

[Styleset]

I actually think it's underrated due to how much it relies on nostalga. Being nostalgic is not a bad thing. People enjoy thinking about happy times and better days. The show has simply packaged that nostalga in away that is more modern in terms of how the characters are not quite as formal I guess you could say. Nobody needs a excuse to come to someones quarters to do crew evalution reports,which is something I have heard the writers talk about. They can just, you know interact like real people and talk about real everyday stuff.


Jason

Thanks, @Jayson1.

I want to clarify that I meant the title of this thread to be The Orville is Overrated AMONG Nostalgic Trek Fans.

I do not disagree that people are entitled to be nostalgic about Star Trek if they want. It's just not as compelling as new Star Trek that tells new stories in that universe that are interesting and ultimately reflective of the personal and social problems we face today. Science fiction as allegory is where is at. Of course beautiful starships help, too!

 

[fireproof78]

Don't get me wrong, I happily watch The Orville. I enjoy to a significant degree. Its just not as compelling to me. I think someone above said that DSC is trying to be "prestige television." I think they are correct. Some may say that it doesn't succeed. And I can understand that.

Pretty much sums it up for me.

 

[Jayson1]

Thanks, @Jayson1.

I want to clarify that I meant the title of this thread to be The Orville is Overrated AMONG Nostalgic Trek Fans.

I do not disagree that people are entitled to be nostalgic about Star Trek if they want. It's just not as compelling as new Star Trek that tells new stories in that universe that are interesting and ultimately reflective of the personal and social problems we face today. Science fiction as allegory is where is at. Of course beautiful starships help, too!

Well I agree in theory real Trek would be better. Actually we had it with the Kelvin Universe movies. Those are lots of fun that is nostalgic at times but also very modern. "Discovery" is okay but I really hope Trek at some point can do better. I actually have lots of hope in all the others shows Picard and the cartoon. I even think I can see myself liking the Georgiou show better. I am very excited in fact to see a Section 31 Georgiou show. To me that feel like it can really do some risky things that were kind of promised with "Discovery" but never really followed because in the end everyone still has to act all Starfleety. I think the only one I am lukeworm over is the Khan mini-series. I am just not feeling it though I think I should be seeing as how Nick Meyer is going to make it. Part of it is I just don't care what he and his people were doing on that planet during the time between his "TOS" and "Wrath of Khan" apperance.

Jason

 

[tomalak301]

Thanks, @Jayson1.

I want to clarify that I meant the title of this thread to be The Orville is Overrated AMONG Nostalgic Trek Fans.

I do not disagree that people are entitled to be nostalgic about Star Trek if they want. It's just not as compelling as new Star Trek that tells new stories in that universe that are interesting and ultimately reflective of the personal and social problems we face today. Science fiction as allegory is where is at. Of course beautiful starships help, too!

I'm glad you clarified because that drastically changes what this thread is about.

 

[JD]

@BillJ,
The Orville still feels like a "dramedy," and the humor feels more specific to McFarlane.

The reason The Orville feels like a dramedy, is because that's exactly what it is, and what it was always intended to be.

 

[Amaris]

The reason The Orville feels like a dramedy, is because that's exactly what it is, and what it was always intended to be.

Yip. About the 1:00 minute mark:

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[F. King Daniel]

It's more Next Gen/Voyager with Seth McFarlane Humor. I like it, but it's nostalgic comfort food with some fun characters.

 

[BillJ]

It's just not as compelling as new Star Trek that tells new stories in that universe that are interesting and ultimately reflective of the personal and social problems we face today.

I simply don't see any of this out of Discovery. The writing is about as subtle as "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield". The difference? Discovery takes itself very, very seriously. They've sucked the fun, heart and optimism out of Star Trek.

 

[BillJ]

It's more Next Gen/Voyager with Seth McFarlane Humor. I like it, but it's nostalgic comfort food with some fun characters.

I really don't see how The Orville is comfort food and Discovery is somehow new and bold?

 

[Mudd]

Well I agree in theory real Trek would be better.

"In theory."

I.e.: "If Star Trek were better, then of course Star Trek would be better."

Duh.

 

[ALF]

I think that The Orville could take itself a bit more seriously and that Discovery could take itself less seriously - the result would be better, well-rounded shows for both.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I really don't see how The Orville is comfort food and Discovery is somehow new and bold?

Did I say it was? It's Star Trek applied to the modern streaming show format. With more speeches. I find it entertaining, like I do Orville.

 

[Mudd]

I really don't see how The Orville is comfort food and Discovery is somehow new and bold?

I can make the argument that The Orville is comfort food. That POV doesn't trouble me, though I don't take it seriously.

The argument that STD is "new and bold" cannot credibly be made. Putting fresh paint on something old and tired, as STD does, may give it a new look...but it's still old and tired. There's nothing happening on the show that hasn't been and isn't being done better by many television dramas that are legitimately aimed at audiences with adult, thoughtful sensibilities.

 

[EnderAKH]

Don't get me wrong, I happily watch The Orville. I enjoy to a significant degree. Its just not as compelling to me. I think someone above said that DSC is trying to be "prestige television." I think they are correct. Some may say that it doesn't succeed. And I can understand that.

Yeah, this is me. I thought the Orville was... OK. I didn't even care to watch it live, I watched the first 3 or 4 episodes the week they aired at least, then ended up binging the rest of it on Hulu well after it completed its first season. For me, it is about on par with something in the Action Pack or PTEN from the 90s, and I didn't even care for that style very much then much less feeling nostalgic for it now. On the other hand, I was legitimately excited for Discovery every week and couldn't wait for it to pop up on CBSAA, a feeling that I haven't had with Star Trek since... well, ever.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It’s definitely a comfy Trek nostalgia show but doesn’t pretend not to be.

I think it’s accurately rated. People who like it are honest about what it is and reasonable criticisms. Orville is exactly what people say it is. And enjoy it for what it is.

I don’t see why nobody seems capable of defending Orville without dissing Discovery in contrast. It has its flaws but I like its ambitions.

To make a food analogy, it’s like an episode of Chopped with a basket full of Star Trek. One contestant took the ingredients and served them as is with a little extra sugar mixed in, and one tried to reinterpret them with trendy modern cooking techniques, some of which worked and some didn’t.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It is just a TV show. So's Star Trek. What's your point?

Some people enjoy being immersed in their fiction. They think drama is more fun if you’re able to suspend disbelief while you’re watching it. And things that remind you it’s fiction prevent that.

 

[Awesome Possum]

It is, but it’s fun and fairly light. It’s a pleasant hour.