I've heard more about continuity and the Prime universe from the current PTB than I did in the entirety of Trek prior to Discovery. They seem to talk about it every chance they get.
Question: Where is it explicitly said that Kirk took command immediately after Pike?
- Thread starter Jackson_Roykirk
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I've heard more about continuity and the Prime universe from the current PTB than I did in the entirety of Trek prior to Discovery. They seem to talk about it every chance they get.
The new definition of “prime universe” is: “characteristics of Star Trek regardless of era, timeline, or universe”
Meaning that DSC can be set before TOS, look more advanced than VOY, reference ENT, and evoke the Kelvin Timeline all at once.
It’s like that episode of Doctor Who when all of history was happening at once. That’s Star Trek now.
Yeah, you missed something.
There's a follow-up line that I've boldfaced [http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/16.htm]:
MENDEZ: You ever met Chris Pike?
KIRK: When he was promoted to Fleet Captain.
MENDEZ: About your age. Big, handsome man, vital, active.
KIRK: I took over the Enterprise from him. Spock served with him for several years.
KIRK: When he was promoted to Fleet Captain.
MENDEZ: About your age. Big, handsome man, vital, active.
KIRK: I took over the Enterprise from him. Spock served with him for several years.
That's explicit. Kirk took over the Enterprise from Pike.
/thread
Ah yes, Pike is the same age as Kirk. Which means he began serving with Spock at the age of 21.
Considering Mendez is, uh, economical with verbs, I think we're just missing the past tense there. The Commodore very well knows Kirk and Pike share history. He's leading the discussion to the well-known shared event, reminding Kirk how manly a figure of manhood the man he met used to be back then - thus laying the groundwork for the shock of seeing him crippled. (From the point of view of the audience, this is where we learn that Pike used to be Kirk, and possibly also that what happened to Pike could happen to our current hero character as well, oooooh...)
After all, it's in this very episode that we learn that Pike is in fact much older than Kirk, no two ways about it. That is, he looked Kirk's age or perhaps a tad older already more than a decade ago. And the gap to Menzed's current age (again by looks) is not big enough to warrant the Commodore thinking in terms of a generation gap, either, and for that reason bunching up two "youngsters" who happen to have more than a decade of age difference between them.
If Mendez goes for brevity of such extent that it risks decades of fandom misconceptions, then Kirk might cut a few in-betweens from the history of their shared ship, too...
Timo Saloniemi
After all, it's in this very episode that we learn that Pike is in fact much older than Kirk, no two ways about it. That is, he looked Kirk's age or perhaps a tad older already more than a decade ago. And the gap to Menzed's current age (again by looks) is not big enough to warrant the Commodore thinking in terms of a generation gap, either, and for that reason bunching up two "youngsters" who happen to have more than a decade of age difference between them.
If Mendez goes for brevity of such extent that it risks decades of fandom misconceptions, then Kirk might cut a few in-betweens from the history of their shared ship, too...
Timo Saloniemi
Kirk, suspecting that Mendez was a Talosian replicant and an illusion, decided to test the “commodore” with a “fact” that Kirk knew to be patently false.
Meanwhile on DSC...
Michael: [with intensity] you want *me* to take command of the Enterprise? But what about Spock? I can’t serve with my brother. Robot... feels... feelings...
That just means Pike was in command for a day or two prior to Kirk's promotion.
They haven't been 'beating anyone over the head' with that - fans asked if it was in the 'Prime' Star Trek Universe. They said, "Yes."
Then various fans start demanding explanations for how they can say that - and there response has been - "yes, we are aware of Star Trek continuity - it'll all work out in the end."
That's been about the extent of the production team 'beating fans over the head' with it. I think it's more accurate to say: "Some fans don't like/don't want to hear that as an answer."
I always interpreted that to mean Pike during the "Cage" flashbacks was the same age Kirk is in the "Menagerie" present.
Saru's list of most decorated captains came straight out of the Discovery computer's Fanwank Database.Honestly, I really don't believe that They will go THAT fanwanky.
I don't doubt that Kirk will be mentioned/brought up in some way, shape or form, but I seriously doubt he will ever be the Captain of the Discovery.
(and if I end up being wrong, then I give @Lord Garth permission to say "I Told Ya SO!")
Memory Alpha?
One thing the cannon wankers forget is actual human history cannon. People make mistakes all the time. Go on social media and you can find so many false facts and bullshit. So what if Harry Kim said something about holodecks in VOY. He could be wrong. Obviously the intent was that he knew what he was talking about, but in real life when a person says something that is supposed to be factual, it could be wrong, or only partially correct. Much of the tech in the military is piloted first with the early development units on a limited fraction of the fleet. In some cases the development it self could span several years or even decades. Once the tech is ready for prime time it will take a long time to retrofit or have it become standard once the entire fleet is refreshed with newer vessels.
It is pretty believable to me that all the high tech items would have been around in 2250. 230 years is such a long time and most of what they have in Trek that is plausible tech ( i.e. not warp drive or transporters) would most certainly have been developed by then. And once the details have been worked out, refining it would follow the same patters we see in modern tech; new tech is out, 10-20 years or so later it is cheaper and almost unrecognizably better. TOS had tiny CRT screens and switches and knobs that made every instrument require technician level training. TNG era had these ridiculous PADs even as PDAs were becoming a thing. ENT literally had 1st gen LCD monitors as part of their set and in the 15 years or so since the show , which was supposed to be 150 years into the future, we have super thin displays that could plaster any surface. The technology in Trek is a mess. Worrying about minuscule inconsistencies between the shows is silly when there have always been huge inconsistencies with real tech that is supposed to precede the show by centuries. It's a speculative fantasy fiction franchise that needs to adapt to be fun and relevant.
It is pretty believable to me that all the high tech items would have been around in 2250. 230 years is such a long time and most of what they have in Trek that is plausible tech ( i.e. not warp drive or transporters) would most certainly have been developed by then. And once the details have been worked out, refining it would follow the same patters we see in modern tech; new tech is out, 10-20 years or so later it is cheaper and almost unrecognizably better. TOS had tiny CRT screens and switches and knobs that made every instrument require technician level training. TNG era had these ridiculous PADs even as PDAs were becoming a thing. ENT literally had 1st gen LCD monitors as part of their set and in the 15 years or so since the show , which was supposed to be 150 years into the future, we have super thin displays that could plaster any surface. The technology in Trek is a mess. Worrying about minuscule inconsistencies between the shows is silly when there have always been huge inconsistencies with real tech that is supposed to precede the show by centuries. It's a speculative fantasy fiction franchise that needs to adapt to be fun and relevant.
Which is why you do a reboot. Though, even if it was a reboot, I found nothing fun or relevant in Discovery.
Except the bullets that occasionally passed through several crewmembers and Borg, the rocks Data stands on in Encounter at Farpoint, the various monsters that attack Worf in his workout programs. So... "Nope!" to your attempted argument.
Exactly. The new US Ambassador to the UN is on record saying that D-Day was a great example of American-German cooperation. So, we can think of this as a cannon violation of history, or take the easier option and assume she has no idea what she's talking about. (plus, didn't Harry Kim never make it out of Ensign? And people trust him as a wise historian?).
^^...Were this Trek it would be much more fun to assume the reference was to Hitler's great contribution in undermining the proper fortification of the French coast or the availability of Pantzer divisions. Or indeed to a cool Berlin/Washington conspiracy of some sort in the 1940s. It's only ITRW that "people generally don't know what they talk about" should be preferable, for its obvious truth value.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
She should have tossed in a reference to Aliens.
That at least would have brought part of the Trek Fandom to her defense.
<snicker>
One could say they were all miming too... and it would be as believable as the Disco holograms not being solid.
