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Disco's version of TOS/TAS: Differences

And there's a difference between things changing in a linear fashion. The Wrath of Khan didn't go back to looking like TOS ten years after TMP.

So? None of that changes they changed to look, Khan and crew were not wearing the outfits from TOS, they changed the cast off outfits. They pure up altered the TOS look right there. It does not matter if it was 3 years before TOS or 3 years after TMP pure up altered the look and tossed out the TOS look .
 
So? None of that changes they changed to look, Khan and crew were not wearing the outfits from TOS, they changed the cast off outfits. They pure up altered the TOS look right there. It does not matter if it was 3 years before TOS or 3 years after TMP pure up altered the look and tossed out the TOS look .

That's not the point. Even though the look of TMP changed, it still fit in to the 'prime universe' because it acknowledged that change. And TNG looked different than the TOS films, but it also acknowledged that it still took place in the same continuity as the films and TOS before that. With DSC, they're not acknowledging the original TOS; they're changing the TOS look to suit their new show. So in my book, that's a reboot all around.
 
I really don't want this to become another "is it a reboot?" thread, there are MANY others for that. Posting in this thread we accept:

1. Everything looks different.
2. Certain details of the universe and it's backstory have been altered.

Then we imagine how TOS might differ based on DSC.
 
Another one: More varied ship designs.

The USS Constellation from "The Doomsday Machine" may be Crossfield class or a DSC-era contemporary, owing to it's lower NCC-1017 registry.

Also as we saw with the USS Defiant NCC-1764, the other Connies we see may vary quite a bit from the USS Enterprise.

Also the huge fleet of Klingon ships glimpsed in TOS-R "Errand of Mercy" would likely be made up of more than just the D-7/K'tinga.
 
I can grok 1. It's just that in Star Trek, this never affects anything, and never amounts to 2. If the world suddenly looks like TNG, TOS still happened exactly like it did. If it looks like Kelvinverse, TNG and the TOS movies still happened exactly like they did. This is made explicit in the respective spinoffs.

Now, this thread is not about that phenomenon. It's about a different premise, as you make clear. It's just that the premise is somewhat alien to Trek, which might confuse the audiences.

Ookay... So, what would be different from TOS ten years down the line when DSC spilled over to the 2260s? That is, being dictated as being different by DSC? Not the uniforms - they tend to change overnight anyway. Not the sidearms - same deal. The more permanent fixtures such as ships, perhaps - although the "more varied designs" argument already covers that, since TOS didn't show us anything and thus didn't dictate or contradict anything. The hero ship could be the same, that is, become the same. The holotech? If anything, it's more advanced in TAS than in DSC. The forcefields? Same deal, they become invisible by TOS.

So basically I'm having to state here that a lot would be different, that is, different from DSC and thus perhaps similar to TOS, because that's how Trek usually works in the timescale of decades. Which is disappointing for the thread, alas.

But if nothing was different from DSC, then the thread becomes duller still: TOS is just DSC, in a differently shaped ship but otherwise with the DSC props and aesthetics. I can't see the plots affected much either way.

Timo Saloniemi
 
The easy one: the Enterprise in "TOS" (quotations deliberate so it's clear I'm talking about the hypothetical, un-produced Disco version of TOS ;)) looks like however it'll look in DSC. Maybe a minor refit, since that's what would probably happen between 2258 and 2266 anyway.

Another one: All races that seemed local or nearby in TNG or DS9 are known by the Federation in "TOS". Due to slower warp speed, they might seem further away, but they're still known, even if they're not dealt with often or as often. In "TOS", we just don't happen to see these races.

There's no EUSPA. Even in actual TOS itself, this was dropped by the end of the first season in favor of Starfleet and the United Federation of Planets.
 
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In the "grander" continuity, things will always be the way the majority of audiences identifies them:
  • "Han Solo" looks like Harrison Ford, even if there was a more recent, big budget blockbuster movie with Alden Ehrenreich starring in the role that millions of people saw
  • "Spock" will always be the original Leonard Nimoy, both Quinto and now Peck will go down as "variants" on the character (like Ehrenreich)
  • The Enterprise will always look like she did in the 60s, even if newer productions always and forever will try to put their own spin on it - the one version that will be universally accepted is always going to be the original one (and cleverly "the refit")
 
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The Enterprise will always look like she did in the 60s, even if newer productions always and forever will try to put their own re-design on it - the one version that will be universally accepted is always going to be the original one (and cleverly "the refit")
Totally agree. We could even go so far as to say that the prime Enterprise is iconic of Star Trek since that ship appears to be the “go to” version of the Enterprise regardless of whatever timeline or visual reboot interpretation we’re talking about.

For instance: “Airplane 2” used the classic design, not the refit - despite the refit being used in several films and broadcast to potentially a larger audience than the classic Enterprise.

For another instance: SNL recreated the TOS bridge with Chris Pine as Kirk for one of their skits. Ok, that was related to the plot of the skit - but why not set the skit in the Kelvin timeline since that’s the direction the franchise must go (c.f. DSC)?

Or are the classic images so iconic that they really shouldn’t be ignored? I’ll let *you* decide.

(But the answer’s “yes”)
 
Cage era style Phasers that now have much more detail than the TOS version and seem more advanced, leaving to real reason to drop the Kelvin inspired "flip effect" for each setting down to the single crystal of TOS.

The rifles are now entirely different. Communicators on the show are custom wraps around old jailbroken iPhone 4S's so they now have interactive touch screens.

As does everything else, all buttons and old circuits and now proper touch screens and futuristic interiors, so no opening them to do old fashioned soldering in overalls.

No episode where the viewscreen acts weird or has to be reset, windows for various episodes to look out and see ships/people/planets. Information relayed by Spock is now shown on the screen itself.

Pulse phasers all the time so none of the dramatic leaving the beam on for ages to melt something, just pummelling it from obit.

Site to site transports that happen safely and quickly so no episode with a locked door, security teams beaming in to stop Riley and Khan in those episodes.

Better biometrics to seal off access so no drunken crew members getting away with shutting down engines, smarter computers that might lock people out and take the ship over entirely if enough of the crew are comprimised. Constant psych eval programming to stop listening to insane Captains when they start to go loopy.

Brigs with smart controls and stronger forcefield so Charlie making a wall disappear just makes it extend the forcefield to enclose it again. Instant ones from TNG popping up around intruders.

All Klingon and Romulan ships look different. Romulan ships with brow ridge crew, shaven head slaves and Reman workers in the dangerous sections.

The location lock system for the sporedrive along allows far better long range scanning, Sarek seeing light coming from a system that had only started emitting it hundreds of lightyears away means way better FTL sensors.

Shuttlebays have forcefields, like the TMP ones (that massive hanger was open all the time in TMP with no decompression, so they had it by 2271) so it's not much of a stretch to just give the 1701 it too, so no decompression wait times. People standing in the bay as shuttles of the new design come and go, cargo kept in there.

No bubble shield effect, it's more like Kelvin/Nemesis skin tight ones now. So all battles look different. Complete wit h every shot exploding against the hull as they do now for no reason.

No sudden swinging around at warp, keeping to linear movement and no fights a warp but to be honest, that's more in keeping with literally anything post TOS.

The Cloud Creature can no longer entire the ventillation system, being held by the ship itself in a valve somewhere and forcing it back out. Or never getting through shields at all. Why there was a direct access from external vents on the ship to everyones rooms was worrying enough.

No burn outs of the dilithium circuits, so that episode never happens. Tractor beams are used more and visibly appear.

The Mirror Universe Spock notices something about Kirk that prompts him to access the ships database, finds references to the Prime universe complete with diagram of the new Defiant refit from DSC, and refers to him as being from the "Defiant's universe" and mentions major upsets to the Empire always accompany the presence of people from it. Lines about Evil Kirk rising to the greatness of Sato, or the fall from power of Georgiou.

The entire courtroom episode, just scanning the interior of the Enterprise or checking the access logs, would have solved that one anyway. But now the computer would have made it easier to find either.

That new Earth at the edge of the solar system complete with the same level of sunlight as Earth would have and 80,000 person superstarbase would have to factor into it. Starbase 1 now being there instead of Berengaria VII, means Spock was stationed in the Sol system, so no dragons.

Starfleet has about 200 years of data about Vulcans, so most of Spocks storys change considerably. As does his medical care, and his anticipation of his Pon Farr, taking leave that easily.

A lot more aliens on the Enterprise, helping with varous situations and away missions. Andorians being a Federation member state, not green marauders.

Replicators with added programmed attitude. No food cubes.

Off duty personnel out of uniform and in those black shirts.

Romulan Commander is a lesbian now. The Enterprise becomes a statue on Romulus, the crew are executed. Whoops.
 
That's not the point. Even though the look of TMP changed, it still fit in to the 'prime universe' because it acknowledged that change. And TNG looked different than the TOS films, but it also acknowledged that it still took place in the same continuity as the films and TOS before that. With DSC, they're not acknowledging the original TOS; they're changing the TOS look to suit their new show. So in my book, that's a reboot all around.


TMP acknowledged it just as DSC did. Not a soul seemed to notice the freaking Klingon race had totally changed. Not an eye bat, not a peep. Its the very same thing DSC did but you are ignoring it.
 
That's not the point. Even though the look of TMP changed, it still fit in to the 'prime universe' because it acknowledged that change. And TNG looked different than the TOS films, but it also acknowledged that it still took place in the same continuity as the films and TOS before that. With DSC, they're not acknowledging the original TOS; they're changing the TOS look to suit their new show. So in my book, that's a reboot all around.

TMP acknowledged it just as DSC did. Not a soul seemed to notice the freaking Klingon race had totally changed. Not an eye bat, not a peep. Its the very same thing DSC did but you are ignoring it.

All DSC did was stick very carefully to existing precedent and lore, which indicates that Starfleet design aesthetics and uniforms change periodically and on a dime.

The only element of the franchise that really doesn't demonstrate that is the 90's TV Trek era. Otherwise, we've seen interior designs, uniform designs, console / interface aesthetics, lighting philosophy, and starship designs change very significantly and very quickly at other times, inclusive of the TNG movies which had 3 different uniform designs transitioned over 2 movies.

DSC was just following through on the already established pattern. And, I don't think it needs to be "acknowledged" unless it's integral to the story. In TMP, the Enterprise design changes were a part of the story, and warranted discussion and acknowledgement as such. Otherwise, they don't need to explain and lay out every little thing.
 
TMP acknowledged it just as DSC did. Not a soul seemed to notice the freaking Klingon race had totally changed. Not an eye bat, not a peep. Its the very same thing DSC did but you are ignoring it.

I'm not ignoring anything. TMP, TNG, etc. acknowledged TOS exactly as TOS was seen on screen. DSC acknowledges some other form of TOS, not what was shown on screen. Not sure why you can't seem to grasp this concept.

As for the Klingons, there was a very specific reason story-wise why the DSC Klingons look the way they do. And only the future of DSC will tell what they do with that to align it with their version of TOS or not. And if DSC is a reboot, then there's no reason at all why they need to make the Klingons start to look like oily-skinned humans.

LOl, those are not cloths you make without technology and industry. They are not scraps, they are not loin coths and thrown together outfits, but tailor made clothing.

Kirk left them on Ceti Alpha V with an entire cargo carrier of supplies. You don't think that he left clothing for them too?
 
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I'm not ignoring anything. TMP, TNG, etc. acknowledged TOS exactly as TOS was seen on screen. DSC acknowledges some other form of TOS, not what was shown on screen. Not sure why you can't seem to grasp this concept.

TMP ignores TOS totally, decades later TNG played a homage ( and got the wrong ship by the way), ut TMP tossed TOS totally, which was one of the issues people hated about TMP

As for the Klingons, there was a very specific reason story-wise why the DSC Klingons look the way they do. And only the future of DSC will tell what they do with that to align it with their version of TOS or not. And if DSC is a reboot, then there's no reason at all why they need to make the Klingons start to look like oily-skinned humans.

The was no story reason for the Klingon change for 20+ years. A retcon in 02 or 03 changed the history of the setting based off a joke from DS9. But no, there was no explanation, nor a need for one now. You can even leave the silly retcon augment storyline and simply make them look different and it has no change to canon. There is no need for them to look human, that was always stupid.


Kirk left them on Ceti Alpha V with an entire cargo carrier of supplies. You don't think that he left clothing for them too?

Yet it looks ST 2 style and not TOS style. So my comment stands, they erased the TOS look.
 
Looks are unimportant and Balance of terror has been out of date for at lest a decade.
That's not entirely true for those of us that are willing to take what Scotty and Spock said in context of TOS itself.

There's no way that Romulan BOP could have gotten to the Neutral Zone in a feasible amount of time if it only had Impulse Engines.
Scotty was guessing at that moment as to what the ship had, based on the minimal scans they were able to get through the cloak and his years of engineering experience.
Scotty was really good, but he wasn't perfect or infallible.

And Spock's comment was based on what few records were available from the Romulan War years.
Nuclear Weapons were used, but he didn't say that they were the only weapons used.

Beyond all that...,
As far as I'm concerned, "ENTERPRISE" and "FIRST CONTACT" explain all the differences with the Temporal Wars & the BORG travelling back in time with the resulting interaction of the TNG crew and Cochrane.

"DISCOVERY" is technically still the "Prime Timeline" BUT, everything we've seen since TOS ended has made a bunch of subtle changes to that timeline which IMO has created a slight tangent and won't lead exactly to The Original Series anyway.

:shrug:
 
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I don't remember hearing in any of the DISCOVERY episodes that Humans hadn't heard of cloaking devices before.
All I remember is that they didn't know how to detect the current cloak that the Klingons are usnig.
 
I'm glad that ENT and the Kelvin Films came before DSC. They absorbed most of the reactions to Pre-TOS Star Trek. Without them, can you imagine how much worse the reaction to look of Discovery would be?

Of course, if you were here in 2001, you can. If not, it was something to see.

Yeah, I explained on another site that the Hate DSC got was nothing to what ENT got. They did not believe me.
 
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