One of the exchanges I was thinking of was a poster calling L'Rell ugly. Another poster saying she isn't. Then that first poster saying, he didn't know the second poster had the "hots for her". Meaning that she was called ugly because only because she's not attractive enough. If this were a male Klingon, this exchange wouldn't have happened at all. That's what makes it sexist.
And the Miss Piggy thing wouldn't have ridden wild either. The fact that it was the very first response got this thing off on the wrong foot to begin with, then it snowballed. Right down to another poster photo-shopping Miss Piggy's face onto L'Rell (intended to be a joke/insult but I took it in stride by saying it looks nice instead of laughing along) and the exchange I mentioned above, in the previous paragraph, for starters.
EDIT: And how the head supposedly makes her look too "fat" for her body... I looked at the picture again. First, I don't agree. And second, if that's the definition of "fat", then let's just say that also wouldn't have been said about a male Klingon.
Let me explain how this exchange came about.
Dennis made the following post:
I'm looking at an immobile piece of plastic in a photograph and joking that it looks like Miss Piggy, because...it rather does.
I've commented unfavorably on the immobile and preposterous design of the plastic Klingon faces on STD since the show first premiered, without regard to the gender of the particular unfortunate actor who happened to be stuffed under there.
Mary Chieffo is a good actor, as far as I could tell - like all the Klingon performers, her performance was critically handicapped by that Halloween mask and ridiculous false teeth. She certainly does not resemble Miss Piggy in any way.
The photograph of L'rell looks quite a bit like Miss Piggy.
You are welcome to take offense at the fact that I think the Klingon makeup is awful, or at whatever else suits your mood.
Possum claimed he was defending sexist remarks even though there was nothing sexist in what he said.
Miss Piggy was made of foam and felt, not plastic. So I don’t get the comparison at all. But I don’t try to defend sexist remarks.
Then she referred to something that was not even in
Dennis' post, but was from way back on the first page from four days ago, and was kind of misleading in that the post didn't call Mary Chiefo fat, but said the prosthetic made the character's face look unnaturally fat. It's a criticism of the makeup, not the person underneath.
It’s calling her fat and comparing her to a pig that I object to. It doesn’t really come off as just criticizing the makeup.
Then I said this:
I looked back at the one post that mentioned the word "fat", and it was specifically talking about the look of the facial prosthetics.
And if someone were to say that this makeup made the character look pig-like, would that be sexist?
I think there's enough genuine sexism on this board and in the world at large to not get hung up on prosthetic makeup criticism.
Which brings us up to the current discussion where you're now bringing up another post from three days ago that everyone has moved on from and which is completely unrelated to
Dennis' post I was originally referring to. You can't keep changing the conditions of the deal. You're
Lord Garth, not Lord Vader.
People have called male Klingons fat and ugly many times, and they've certainly called these new Klingons ugly too many times to count. It has nothing to do with the appearance of the actor underneath. Well, calling them fat would, but that was reserved for K'mpec from TNG and Koord from STV or the Klingon Ambassador from STIV and VI as mentioned above. The current group of Klingons are lean and ugly.
Saying the prosthetic makes the character look pig-like is not sexist. If you said a female Tellarite had pig-like features would that be sexist? The addition of the long curly hair and 70s disco dress completes the Miss Piggy aesthetic in some people's eyes. If you disagree that's fine, but the sexism accusations against people who weren't being sexist by tying them in with other unrelated comments needs to stop. Which is what I asked everyone to do yesterday, and people just ignored it and kept right on rolling along throwing out accusations.
As far as the "I didn't know you had the hots for her" smartass comment by
Terek Nor in response to
Tuskin just responding "No"; yes, that was out of line. I would have said something at the time had it been notified on then, three days ago, rather than brought up now after the conversation had moved on and the dispute was dropped. Anyway
Terek Nor, consider yourself retroactively chastised.
And
Timo, I feel you warming up for a lengthy session of
Timoing about "sexism" which you put in scare quotes for some reason, which is never a good sign. So just don't, please.
