Production Order Group Viewing 2018

[Pauln6]

Generalize much?

I was being facetious ;-p.

Actually, quite a lot of studies have shown that in mixed groups women speak less than men but when asked who spoke the most, both sexes over- estimated the amount of speaking the women did. Obviously, this is on average.

Many Trek officers act dumb in TOS with limited investigative skills, it's why Sulu is quite refreshing. For the women the issue is that it's hard to find any at all who take the initiative.

 

[Mytran]

ARENA - in my opinion, one of the best episodes to show all the things that Star Trek is about; aliens, space travel, starship combat, Kirk-fu, brains over brawn and a message of trying to understand your enemy.

We also get an indication of what passes for food on board the Enterprise, as McCoy is looking forward to a “good old fashioned non-reconstituted meal”. So much for the synthetic meatloaf!

They couldn't tell from orbit that the base was destroyed, there were aliens on the planet, there was an alien ship in the area? How do sensors work, anyway? Or didn't they do any scans since the planet was supposed to be friendly?

In Star Trek VI we have that ridiculous scene where our heroes are paging through English to Klingon dictionaries to reply to the Klingons because the Klingons would know if you respond with a universal translator. So how was the Enterprise fooled by the Gorns? Is there a Gorn who speaks fluent English? How do the Gorns know what Commodore Whatshisface sounds like? Maybe they intercepted the base's signals for a long time before the attack and heard what he sounds like?

My impression was that the gorns were actually speaking directly to the ship. Maybe they were using voice changer tech to sound like Commodore Travers? It is mentioned repeatedly that they are a highly advanced society, similar in tech level to Starfleet. Anyway, if they can do that I'm sure setting up some equipment to give off false sensor readings shouldn't be too much trouble.

It's really pretty nuts to be running around with charges going off all around them, and some of those explosions are close enough to kill them really.

In reality they were just dust puffs, with the noises added later. Still looks good though, even today! It befuddled my all-knowing teenaged son as to how they did it

Didn't realize Warp 7 was so dangerous.

This Warp 7, anyway. Pike ran the engines at this speed for nearly 24 hours back in The Cage, back when it was called "Time Warp 7"

How long would it take to go 500 parsecs at Warp 1. Sounds slow to me.

Warp speed in general is very strange in this episode. Last week, 900 light years was implied to be a long way from Earth. Yet in this episode the Enterprise puts Cestus 22.3 parsecs behind them in 0.6 stardate units, which at most seems to be around half a day. That's equivalent to 145 light years a day! At that speed, Gothos is less than a week away from Earth and that's only at Warp 5!
Also, when the Gorn ship slows to sublight, Kirk is still rocketing along at Warp 8 and should catch up with them in a fraction of a second - yet does not. They were no more than mere minutes apart when leaving Cestus.
This part of the galaxy does indeed earn its reputation from all those "space legends"...

 

[Pauln6]

Arena is great sci fi episode, toying with expectations about little green men again. They are intelligent, advanced, and evil. It stresses the vulnerability of remote colonies again and the casual satisfaction of revenge and then it turns it on its head.

I really liked that the Gorn was from a higher gravity environment, slow, strong, and solid. It made it seem more alien than a man in a suit. Kirk's antics on the planet are legendary.

The Metrons are a curiosity. Powerful, inscrutable beings who experiment on our heroes. What a rarity they must be.

 

[Phaser Two]

The Metrons are a curiosity. Powerful, inscrutable beings who experiment on our heroes. What a rarity they must be.

Yes, never to be seen again, no doubt!

 

[Shawnster]

Awesome episode. I've always loved the Gorn. In (not only) my head canon (thanks to Star Fleet Battles), the Gorn and the Federation were able to quickly put this incident behind them and become allies. Or, at least, friendly terms. This also seems to be born out in DS-9 with the baseball team "The Pike City Pioneers" being on Cestus III (and, presumably, Pike City).

This is also the episode that made me fall in love with Vasqez Rocks.

The Enterprise must have been the only ship in the area. Or the closest ship. It appears that, prior to the episode, the Enterprise was contacted specifically. The survivor states the Gorn attacked a full day ago and that no message was sent from Cestus III. I wonder if they tried to contact the Enterprise but were jammed. Or maybe the Gorn had listened to comm traffic or something. The Gorn somehow knew which specific ship to call, as well as were able to impersonate the commander of the outpost.

Rank has it's privilege. This must be how McCoy was able to get on this invite list for "dinner." He's definitely not a tactician. Guest of Captain Kirk, no doubt. Or standard procedure for a medical officer to beam down when visiting an outpost.

Kirk must think in Captain's Log. We come back from the teaser and he's dictating a log, yet he's not talking or in any position to record a log. The verb tense is present tense, so it's not like he recorded this when he beamed back up.

The survivor the found has a unique shirt patch. I've not seen it on any other uniform. It's different than the starbase burst design. http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x18hd/arenahd029.jpg

Speaking of survivors, I never paid attention to the fact Kirk ordered 30 medical personnel to beam down to search for survivors. Nice detail. And then the Enterprise sets course back to Cestus III at the end of the episode. Not leaving those medics stranded. Maybe they found survivors.

Transporters do not work through screens or shields. Sulu had to lower shields to beam the landing party back. Yet communications and energy weapons can work through screens.

Sulu flicks those buttons or switches on his console like he's turning lights on or off. Maybe putting the phasers on standby mode since the Gorn warped out an they were beaming up the landing party.

Sustained warp 7 is dangerous. Enterprise must be showing her age since she's gone that fast or faster in the past. Or maybe this is recent development and the Enterprise needs drydock time to repair. 50,000 light year service and maintenance.

Spock seems visibly upset at destroying the Gorn the moment it's first mentioned in Kirk's quarters. Still, he knows his duty and obeys the captain.

Virtually nothing known about that area of space. Just legends, apparently about the Metron. They don't know about the Gorn at all. The Gorn, though, seem to have heard similar rumors about the Metron as they shy away from the Metron planet. They just didn't turn soon enough to avoid the Metron's capturing them.

Odd all these non-corporeal entities like the Thasians or Metrons are still attached to a corporeal location like a planet.

Odd dialog:

KIRK: Our position.
DEPAUL: Two two seven nine pl, sir. Uncharted solar system at two four six six pm.

What is this pl and pm? 2279pl is a position. 2466pm is a position. Coordinates of some sort.

Rather lackluster battle. The starship battle with the Romulans was better. The only drawback of this episode. I'm sure it was due to budget or FX. At least the remastered episodes depict the Gorn ship. We never saw it in the original.

Love the Gorn! The eyeblink on the remastered version is a bit LOL though.

Does Kirk assume his device is a recorder? No mention was made what it was, right? Looks like the universal translator.

Mythbusters did an epsidoe spot on the Gorn cannon. https://dai.ly/x2n923f

And another person claimed to prove Mythbusters wrong.

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[J.T.B.]

The survivor the found has a unique shirt patch. I've not seen it on any other uniform. It's different than the starbase burst design.

Also appeared on the ill-fated outpost officer in "Balance of Terror."

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Also appeared on the ill-fated outpost officer in "Balance of Terror."

Not just the patch, but the actual costume shirt from "Balance of Terror" was re-used.

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x14hd/balanceofterrorhd116.jpg

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x18hd/arenahd029.jpg

 

[Shawnster]

Earth outposts.. Cestus III outpost.... So an outpost is different from a Starbase. And an outpost has that patch?

 

[Poltargyst]

Not a fan of the eyeblink.

And you know...for claiming to be so morally superior, the Metrons are dicks. They don't bother to try to see what the conflict between the Humans and Gorn was about. Maybe one side was right and one wrong. Maybe both sides had a point. And they decide to settle this in a "might makes right" trial by combat that will result in the entire crew of the loser being destroyed no matter how many innocents may be aboard?

"It is possible you may have feelings for your Captain..." Right. So they couldn't be bothered to study the two crews well enough to know this. The Metron at the end shouldn't have been so surprised by Kirk showing mercy to the Gorn if they'd taken the time to study humans. Sitting there in their ivory tower, the Metrons see violence and can't be bothered to take the time to really do the right thing. Like the Greek gods, they have great power but are morally questionable. Dicks.

 

[Pauln6]

Not a fan of the eyeblink.

And you know...for claiming to be so morally superior, the Metrons are dicks. They don't bother to try to see what the conflict between the Humans and Gorn was about. Maybe one side was right and one wrong. Maybe both sides had a point. And they decide to settle this in a "might makes right" trial by combat that will result in the entire crew of the loser being destroyed no matter how many innocents may be aboard?

"It is possible you may have feelings for your Captain..." Right. So they couldn't be bothered to study the two crews well enough to know this. The Metron at the end shouldn't have been so surprised by Kirk showing mercy to the Gorn if they'd taken the time to study humans. Sitting there in their ivory tower, the Metrons see violence and can't be bothered to take the time to really do the right thing. Like the Greek gods, they have great power but are morally questionable. Dicks.

I think if we judge the Metrons by human standards I.e. Humans treating humans, we might be guilty of the same knee jerk prejudices as Kirk and the Gorn. Humans behave appallingly to creatures we deem to be inferior . We farm them and eat them, we hunt and kill them in their own habitat for enjoyment or a trophy, and we steal their habitat for food production. Some people study ants. Most people pour Ant killer or boiling water on their homes.

It's tricky to fathom how the Metrons view such lesser beings. Is this little more than them watching ants fight before pouring boiling water on them?

 

[Shawnster]

And you know...for claiming to be so morally superior, the Metrons are dicks.

You are right. I can easily see /accept the reasoning that the Metrons, like the Excalibans layer, did this for their own entertainment.

Or they are very alien in thinking.

But, no, they did not try to resolve the conflict peacefully.

 

[Pauln6]

You are right. I can easily see /accept the reasoning that the Metrons, like the Excalibans layer, did this for their own entertainment.

Or they are very alien in thinking.

But, no, they did not try to resolve the conflict peacefully.

From a scientific viewpoint, our emotions evolved from Dawinian principles. Fight or flight to protect against predators or rivals for scarce resources, including the 'warrior gene' to prevent negative feelings when you are forced to kill, since to pass on your genes, you have to survive; priority of family bonds (or fear/dislike of 'the other' typified by such things as Islamaphobia or generic racism) to make it easier for us to obtain resources to support our local group which increases the chances of passing on our genes; balanced by altruistic traits whereby if you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours, as we move into agricultural pursuits, showing kindness to friendly strangers means they in turn are more likely to help you in your time of need.

If the Metrons evolved with a different set of survival traits, their emotional responses would be very different, even more so for species with very different biochemistry.

The nature of this evolution is one of the reasons why a right wing nation like the USA with a limited welfare state and a culture of clawing your way to the top of the pile while armed with a gun will gradually evolve an increasingly selfish society that views the needs of 'the others' as inferior to their own, edging towards a war over resources in a few generations' time. We see it happening in Russia too, with massive military spending ignoring the needs of the people and a floundering economy. What long term strategy is that if you aren't just gearing up to take what you need from those you view as inferior?

It's interesting that the allegorical nature of TOS, while sometimes very blunt, still has considerable resonance on many levels.

 

[J.T.B.]

Earth outposts.. Cestus III outpost.... So an outpost is different from a Starbase. And an outpost has that patch?

Apparently. It makes sense enough to me: A base would have facilities to maintain, repair, supply (etc.) operating ships, outposts wouldn't, they'd just be... out there.

 

[Phaser Two]

Apparently. It makes sense enough to me: A base would have facilities to maintain, repair, supply (etc.) operating ships, outposts wouldn't, they'd just be... out there.

Posted.

 

[Poltargyst]

It's interesting that the allegorical nature of TOS, while sometimes very blunt, still has considerable resonance on many levels.

True dat.

 

[Mytran]

Kirk must think in Captain's Log. We come back from the teaser and he's dictating a log, yet he's not talking or in any position to record a log. The verb tense is present tense, so it's not like he recorded this when he beamed back up.

While it's presented this way on screen (and Kirk speaks in the present tense) I am more inclined to believe that he recorded it once he was back on the ship. It would have given him something to do while the medical team were hurriedly assembling themselves and beaming down (I can just imagine Kirk impatiently waiting for them to get gone so he can chase after the Gorn vessel). This would explain why his next log entry has the timestamp "supplement", since he is making it just after they initiate the chase and very little actual time has passed.

I would also like to revise my earlier estimate of the chase to 14 hours, since they have the full 0.6 Stardate units. As for the ludriciously zippy 22.3 parsecs, well......

Speaking of survivors, I never paid attention to the fact Kirk ordered 30 medical personnel to beam down to search for survivors. Nice detail. And then the Enterprise sets course back to Cestus III at the end of the episode. Not leaving those medics stranded. Maybe they found survivors.

Let's hope they beamed down a search team with plenty of supplies then! Or maybe they were hoping to locate the kitchen of Commodore Traver's personal chef? Either way, Sulu explicitly says that they are "clear across the galaxy" from the Metron system, which is itself only a few hours' chase from Cestus III. Even assuming the ludicrous speeds seen in this episode (22.3 parsecs in 14 hours) it would take 13 days for the Enterprise to travel 500 parsecs.
(I can forgive Kirk for starting the journey at Warp One - he often starts off at this speed and then presumably ramps up the speed once all is clear)

What is this pl and pm? 2279pl is a position. 2466pm is a position. Coordinates of some sort.

I noticed this for the first time this rewatch! It is curious that they have spacial co-ordinates, given that are explicitly beyond the "latest chart limit". Curiously, the numbers that DePaul gives are not too dissimilar to Sulu's countdown; perhaps the number part is a distance and the letters are spacial position in relation to the Enterprise?

Speaking Sulu's gives a countdown (I also noticed this for the first time this rewatch):
Over the course of around 12 seconds he counts down from 1810 to 1550 units. What these 260 somethings might be is unclear, but they cannot be less than million-kilometre units and even that would yield a speed of only 72 times the speed of light (Warp 4 on the cubed scale).
Billion-kilometre units would equal 61 parsecs a day, more in line with the 22.3 parsecs Enterprise travelled at (mostly) Warp 5.

What strikes me is just how closely these numbers are to "8", as the Enterprise is travelling at Warp 8 during this time. Allowing for some human error from Sulu, if the 12 seconds ought to have been 10.83 and the mysterious units were indeed million-kilometre segments then they'd be travelling at 80 million KM/S.
IOW, each Warp Factor = 10 million KM/S, nice and neat and tody.
Is this what was on Gene Coon's mind when he inserted this figures into the dialogue? Sadly, we will never know.

Rank has it's privilege. This must be how McCoy was able to get on this invite list for "dinner." He's definitely not a tactician. Guest of Captain Kirk, no doubt. Or standard procedure for a medical officer to beam down when visiting an outpost.

I never thought of this before but I like it. No wonder he's looking so cheery!

 

[Shawnster]

From Balance of Terror

SPOCK: From the outpost's protective shield. Cast rodinium. This is the hardest substance known to our science.
(He crushes it with his hand)

From Arena

KIRK: A large deposit of diamonds on the surface. Perhaps the hardest substance known in the universe.

SPOCK; Diamonds. The hardest known substance. Impelled by sufficient force, they would make formidable projectiles

So, which is it?

 

[Mytran]

Maybe diamonds are the hardest naturally occurring substance, with cast rhodinium being the hardest artificially created substance...

 

[Roundabout]

This is also the episode that made me fall in love with Vasqez Rocks.

Vasqez Rocks. The scenery definitely rocked. It looked beautiful.

One of the things I enjoyed about the episode was that the outdoor scenes were actually outdoors and not inside a sound stage. And I thought the set for the Cestus III outpost was awesome looking, by TOS standards.

Also, the Cestus III scene was imho the most exciting action scene in all TOS. There were explosions all around. Kirk and the landing party had to run around and find cover in order to dodge the incoming fire. It was exciting.

Kirk had the flair for the dramatic. I loved the way he zigged and zagged and tumbled to avoid the explosions. Spock on the other hand moved like a lumbering oaf. It was actually kind of funny. Kirk definitely won the style points.

It was an interesting juxtaposition (am I using the word correctly?) that Kirk used a high tech mortar launcher to repel the Gorn attack at Cestus III but wound up having to create his own primitive mortar launcher to defeat the Gorn in the end.

 

[Phaser Two]

Agreed; there are loads of good action sequences in TOS, but Cestus III is one of the best if not the best. The little touches like "they're moving," the Gorn locking on to Spock's tricorder, Kirk's fantastic zigzags, Kelowitz giving estimated firing coordinates . . . it's awesome.