Was Worf a Good Father?

[sekundant]

I do not think that he was a good father considered as well with Klingon culture too. He did not take enough time and responsibility for his son. Nevertheless that was the best he can do to keep the distance him. Adult Alexander was more sophisticated and likeable person than his father.

IIRC, we lived twice how Worf react, if Starfleet frame does not exist to keep him on the line : "Let He Who Is Without Sin.." and "Birthright II" He was racist, sexist, fanatic, lunatic whatsoever and always needed someone to show him his self image at the mirror. Just the same, his behavior to K'Ehleyr was very irritating for me.

And I think it has nothing to do about being Klingon. We have also General Martok, who can be called a kind of "father figure" who we get presented at the franchise from the Klingons. He had also his Klingon attitude of war, justice, tradition, honor etc. and kept the codex but he was not blind and used often his personal initiative.

 

[JesterFace]

Does Worf actually want to be living within the Starfleet world?

I edited out the part in that post that made me wonder...

Did Worf even want to be a father? He did send Alex away.

 

[Mojochi]

I edited out the part in that post that made me wonder...

Did Worf even want to be a father? He did send Alex away.

Probably not, but he didn't exactly have a choice in that, the way he did with Starfleet.

It's just weird to me how much he seems almost ashamed that he lives by mostly Human standards, & while he probably had little choice in that, as a child living on Earth with the Rozhenkos, he certainly didn't have to join Starfleet, & take on a life that literally defends & champions what are mostly principles & standards that are at odds with his heritage. Certainly Mogh's wasn't always a dishonorable house, & Worf could've easily gone home at any adult age & took up his family legacy, & been as gung ho Klingon as his heart could bear

But he didn't do that. He chose Starfleet, but for some weird reason, we see almost nothing of that in how he parents his quarter-human son

 

[Doc Mugatu]

I’m just curious what other people think about Worf and Alexander’s relationship. I know it’s not a yes or no question, but was Worf as good as a father as he could have been?

I like the character of Worf, however, it is an easy and emphatic "yes" to the question of "was Worf a bad father?" Poor Alexander loses his mother, immediately introduced to a father who immediately sends him away, not too long after he is returned to Worf who immediately expresse his desire to send him away AGAIN, and a few years later accepts a position on DS9 where he could BUT DOESN'T bring Alexander. Worf's habitual rejection of Alexander was blatant and dishonorable.

 

[JesterFace]

Certainly Mogh's wasn't always a dishonorable house, & Worf could've easily gone home at any adult age & took up his family legacy, & been as gung ho Klingon as his heart could bear.

That makes me wonder, had the house of Mogh ever become dishonored at any point if Worf was living in the empire.
His family was given the dishonor by the council because he was living away from the empire in the Federation.
K'mpec said they never expected he would challenge the council on that because he was not around, just living his life away from Qo'noS.

Worf brought dishonor to his family name unknowingly by living in the Federation?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ In a manner of speaking.

If Worf had lived on Qo'noS his whole life, and never entered Starfleet, the High Council would not have used his house as a scapegoat, because Worf would have immediately challenged them. The House of Mogh was NEVER dishonorable, but it was a convenient target because the Council didn't think Worf would even find out about the charges (they didn't know about Kurn).

 

[DonIago]

Kind of makes me curious about the alternate timeline(s) where for whatever reason the High Council had to find someone else to scapegoat...or handle the situation differently in any case.

 

[Arpy]

He was okay. Alexander only turned up problematic because the DS9 writers were looking for drama. It’s why they made a game of torturing O’brien, made Bashir illegally engineered, and Jadzia a Klingon fanatic. Many many kids stay with extended family and they don’t have problematic lives.

Also, Alexander is part human while Worf fully Klingon; if Worf raised him in the Klingon way, his might be an entirely different discussion.

 

[Mojochi]

He was okay. Alexander only turned up problematic because the DS9 writers were looking for drama. It’s why they made a game of torturing O’brien, made Bashir illegally engineered, and Jadzia a Klingon fanatic. Many many kids stay with extended family and they don’t have problematic lives.

Also, Alexander is part human while Worf fully Klingon; if Worf raised him in the Klingon way, his might be an entirely different discussion.

But instead, he stayed on the fence about it, & spent the whole time acting disapprovingly of the fact that the kid was a product of two cultures. It's still a shit way to grow up, not knowing what your identity should be

 

[TribbleFeeder]

I just wish they would have used Alexander to help develop Worf’s softer side.

TPTB shame on you.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

He was okay. Alexander only turned up problematic because the DS9 writers were looking for drama. It’s why they made a game of torturing O’brien, made Bashir illegally engineered, and Jadzia a Klingon fanatic. Many many kids stay with extended family and they don’t have problematic lives.

Also, Alexander is part human while Worf fully Klingon; if Worf raised him in the Klingon way, his might be an entirely different discussion.

Could Alexander have turned out fine in a different story? Sure. But he still would have done so despite Worf, not because of him.

At best, Worf was an absent father who found it nearly impossible to connect with his son on any meaningful level and who decided that if his son was better off away from Klingon culture then Worf just wouldn't have any meaningful contact with him.

Good grandparents can sort of make up for that sort of thing, but their achievements don't magically turn Worf into a good father.

 

[Arpy]

Could Alexander have turned out fine in a different story? Sure. But he still would have done so despite Worf, not because of him.

At best, Worf was an absent father who found it nearly impossible to connect with his son on any meaningful level and who decided that if his son was better off away from Klingon culture then Worf just wouldn't have any meaningful contact with him.

Good grandparents can sort of make up for that sort of thing, but their achievements don't magically turn Worf into a good father.

We don’t know what their relationship was like until Alexander showed up a mess on the Bird of Prey. They may have been great, Alexander a star student with a life on Earth and sufficient quality time with his military dad.

The only reason he didn’t join Worf in “Way of the Warrior” is because they didn’t want to think about an extra character. He could have shown up randomly on DS9, like Wesley in NEM, all smiles if they wanted to.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

We don’t know what their relationship was like until Alexander showed up a mess on the Bird of Prey. They may have been great, Alexander a star student with a life on Earth and sufficient quality time with his military dad.

The only reason he didn’t join Worf in “Way of the Warrior” is because they didn’t want to think about an extra character. He could have shown up randomly on DS9, like Wesley in NEM, all smiles if they wanted to.

We know he was basically never mentioned for years. I suppose you could retcon it like 'Oh, Alexander and I talk every day' but it would be seriously awkward writing.

 

[Arpy]

We know he was basically never mentioned for years. I suppose you could retcon it like 'Oh, Alexander and I talk every day' but it would be seriously awkward writing.

Nah, it'd just be an episode. Kid's in college now and wants to be a diplomat first-hand, internship on DS9. Oh and his girlfriend shows up in the Romulan ministry and drama ensues. And btw the Rozhenko parents may have still different political views on the Dominion. Golly Gee what reunion!

 

[Mojochi]

...ehem… @Arpy that quote wasn't mine, it was @grendelsbayne

 

[Jedman67]

Was he a perfect father 100% of the time? I'd definitely say no, he was very flawed. But he did right by Alexander when things really truly mattered, and to me he'll always be a good father.

Yeah, I think maybe he just didn’t really know what he was doing and got thrown into being a dad unexpectedly. He had such a confusing upbringing himself, so that probably didn’t help either.

I don't think Worf was a great father. Worf was a good man, who tried to be a good dad but as demonstrated on screen felt that Alexander was too much of a burden and that he should be embarrassed to have a father who was dishonored.
And when Alexander felt estranged, he tried to disown his father.

 

[Marynator]

Oh dear, I'm really surprised so many consider Worf to be a bad father, lol. I guess maybe this really says a lot about just how bad my father is, if I'd rather be Worf's child. For me because of my upbringing, I guess I'm really able to appreciate those things Worf did do for his son that would've really meant a lot to me, and I guess I sort of feel he started out as a very reluctant father but his journey ending in "Firstborn" was towards him realizing what a good father is, which is to accept your child as he or she is and not what you want them to be, which to me still makes Worf a great father in the end.

 

[TribbleFeeder]

Oh dear, I'm really surprised so many consider Worf to be a bad father, lol. I guess maybe this really says a lot about just how bad my father is, if I'd rather be Worf's child. For me because of my upbringing, I guess I'm really able to appreciate those things Worf did do for his son that would've really meant a lot to me, and I guess I sort of feel he started out as a very reluctant father but his journey ending in "Firstborn" was towards him realizing what a good father is, which is to accept your child as he or she is and not what you want them to be, which to me still makes Worf a great father in the end.

I’m sorry, Mary.

I appreciate the optimistic perspective you have

 

[Arpy]

...ehem… @Arpy that quote wasn't mine, it was @grendelsbayne

Okay, dunno how that happened.

Actually, I kinda like my idea about Alexander showing up on DS9. He could have been an example of more cosmopolitan Earth and an interesting friend for Jake, who maybe was a bit more provincial, being stuck out on the frontier. Maybe some jealousy from Nog, who felt his best friend found a new bud, and a nod to all our changing relationships over the years, especially as Nog went more Starfleet.

And we could have had a Romulan field office on DS9 — where WAS Cretak’s office? Espionage there, and also a Montagues and Capulets story with Alexander and a Romulan attaché? Who ends up actually BEING a spy? Garak could have played a role in a story there too.

And the Rozhenkos visit their grandson’s new internship, and maybe one wants peace with the Dominion and the other just can’t understand why the peaceful Federation is always in one damned armed conflict after another. Maybe there’s more going on than we’re lead to believe.

 

[Nightdiamond]

By the late TNG, Worf and Alexander seemed like they were going to have a normal relationship.

DS9 totally messed that notion up. Alexander looked almost like he needed therapy.
They hadn't spoken in 5 years, and Alexander said it was all on Worf's side. Worf didn't even disagree-- he said he lived a warrior's life. That sounds Klingon, except the problem is, even Martok said there was something wrong with it.

Worf sounds like he took the Klingon stuff way too seriously. To the point of being some type of fundamentalist from all the books he probably read.

 

[DonIago]

Agreed. If you just look at TNG then by the end Worf seems to be getting himself together as a father, but DS9, like it or not, make it clear that what we saw didn't stick.

 

[Mojochi]

Oh dear, I'm really surprised so many consider Worf to be a bad father, lol. I guess maybe this really says a lot about just how bad my father is, if I'd rather be Worf's child. For me because of my upbringing, I guess I'm really able to appreciate those things Worf did do for his son that would've really meant a lot to me, and I guess I sort of feel he started out as a very reluctant father but his journey ending in "Firstborn" was towards him realizing what a good father is, which is to accept your child as he or she is and not what you want them to be, which to me still makes Worf a great father in the end.

& honestly, if Alexander's arc had ended with Firstborn, then I'd completely agree with you. It seemed like a good way to FINALLY get Worf to wise up about his poor parenting. The subsequent reality of Alexander after that though is that he was left behind again, & ultimately came back a troubled person as a result of poor parenting