Was Worf a Good Father?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by TribbleFeeder, Sep 14, 2018 at 2:51 PM.

  1. TribbleFeeder

    TribbleFeeder The Real Kim Cardassian Premium Member

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    I’m just curious what other people think about Worf and Alexander’s relationship. I know it’s not a yes or no question, but was Worf as good as a father as he could have been?

    Alexander obviously struggled a lot, which was probably a result of his mother being killed, but did Worf do everything he could to be there for him in the following years?

    I’m honestly kind of torn. I know Worf had a lot of responsibilities so Alexander was able to get more attention living with his grandparents. But sometimes I think it would have been vital for him to live with his father and be raised by another Klingon. Maybe that would have helped him in the long run.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Marynator

    Marynator Logic Lady Premium Member

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    I feel Worf struggled a lot, and he had a lot of conflicting emotions. I believe he deeply loved K'Ehleyr, and I feel he took her death really very hard. In my mind he did love his son, but he really doubted his abilities, and he wanted what was best for him and he often thought that meant someone else needed to raise him, like his parents or other Klingons. He's deeply ashamed by his dishonor and he felt Alexander would be ashamed of him, but he didn't really understand how much his son loves him and how little his honor really meant to him, something I feel Worf learns over several seasons.

    But I feel you can see several keys to how good a father he is, and how much he valued his son. In Ethics, Alexander's all that ultimately really keeps Worf tethered to having a desire to live, and I just love that scene where he's telling him how they're going to get through this together. And then when Worf lets Alexander help him, OMG I'm crying right now, sorry!

    And also in Firstborn, when Worf speaks to his adult son, and he feels pride in the life he's going to live, even though it's nothing like what Worf thought he envisioned for his son, but he finally really understood, and I felt Worf's change was really touching to me. I don't think a father can really be any better than he was here, and I feel this episode's sort of a metaphor for any parent learning to accept your child isn't what you expected, even when he or she has values very contrary to your own.

    And then of course lots of little things, like how Worf played with him in his holodeck adventure, and he even took that mud bath with him once, remember? He's a much better father than I have, and I can relate to Alexander with being a disappointment to your father (in my case because of my sex and being his firstborn child).
     
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  3. XCV330

    XCV330 Commodore Fleet Captain

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    No. He's not.
     
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  4. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think he tried to be...but I'm not sure he tried as hard as he could have, and he seems to have made decisions in the moment that he thought would be best for Alexander without considering what Alexander might think of the decision or how it might play out in the long-term.

    I can't really blame Alexander for being a bit resentful of him, though to be clear, Worf could have been much worse.
     
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  5. WraithDukat

    WraithDukat Captain Premium Member

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    No, demeaning your child every chance you get and sending him to live with his parents because he's not the kind of child you would've liked and cramps your style is not being a good father.
     
  6. Sophie74656

    Sophie74656 Commodore Commodore

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    Worf didn't know he had a kid and then...surprise here's your kid you have to take care of him. He didn't have him from a baby to get to know him and help with him. He only had this young kid who was already relatively set in his ways. That was hard for both of them.
     
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  7. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Compared to Sisko...no
    Compared to TOS Sarek....yes
     
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  8. JesterFace

    JesterFace Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't think we saw enough of Worf being a father to Alexander to actually know the answer.

    In the end, I think sending Alex to Earth with Sergey and Helena was a good decision.
    Too bad that later they decicded it wasn't a good idea.
     
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  9. TribbleFeeder

    TribbleFeeder The Real Kim Cardassian Premium Member

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    Yeah it just seemed like he didn’t have any stability. I agree with @Marynator that he definitely loved him very much, but it seemed that Worf just didn’t make Alexander a priority.

    I was disappointed with how little we saw him in the show, especially compared to Wesley and (in DS9) Jake and Nog. Worf was a vital character and sometimes I even forgot he had a son. It was like he was an afterthought.
     
  10. TheGoodStuff

    TheGoodStuff Captain Captain

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    This is a tricky question because most people will judge Worf by human standards which isn't really fair.

    I haven't actually seen much Klingon parenting in Trek...so I'm not entirely sure what, to them, is 'good'. By Klingon standards, I wouldn't be surprised if Worf was 'too soft' on Alexander.

    As I said, it's a hard one to answer because they aren't human and have a totally different culture. 'Good' is completely subjective.
     
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  11. TribbleFeeder

    TribbleFeeder The Real Kim Cardassian Premium Member

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    That’s true. However, how much does Worf really know about Klingon parenting? He wasn’t raised by Klingons either, if anything his experiences with parenting are solely human.

    Worf trying to raise Alexander like a Klingon was actually worse for him because Worf didn’t really know what he was doing.

    I doubt K’Ehleyr was raising him like a Klingon, she favored her human side more. So I don’t know why he even tried to raise him that way when he was already at an age where he was grasping more human values. I feel like he was obviously gonna end up very confused and disenfranchised by both cultures, just as K’Ehleyr was.
     
  12. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    No, he wasn't.

    Worf very obviously placed his job and career ahead of his family, following the way of the warrior.
     
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  13. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You can really only judge this based on what the kid got, & what the kid needed. He's not fully Klingon, & spent an amount of his formative years being raised by his mother, outside of that cultural influence.

    So what he needed, & what his mother woulld've wanted, was someone to mentor him in the ways of straddling both those cultures. There are very few of those people available. Fortunately, despite his best efforts to present otherwise, Worf, the kid's own father, is better experienced in that than just about anyone alive.

    Sadly, he not only provided none of that to his son, but because of his own biases & inner demons, he actually did everything he could to discourage it, making the kid struggle harder than was needed.

    Data actually showed more consideration for his mother's needs, in the few days after he'd just met her, than Worf showed his son, ever, because he didn't want to confuse what would be best for her, with what would be best for himself

    I like to think Worf didn't act in his own best interest over his son's on purpose. It was just blindness, that led him to it, but nonetheless, even though I'm sure he cares for his son profoundly, I can't say I think he did right by his son, & in that sense, he many not be a terrible father, but he was not the father the boy needed, & therefore not as good to him as he could've been imho
     
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  14. TribbleFeeder

    TribbleFeeder The Real Kim Cardassian Premium Member

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    Yeah, I’m totally leaning the other way now. He loved him but he definitely wasn’t a great parent.
     
  15. Marynator

    Marynator Logic Lady Premium Member

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    Was he a perfect father 100% of the time? I'd definitely say no, he was very flawed. But he did right by Alexander when things really truly mattered, and to me he'll always be a good father.
     
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  16. TribbleFeeder

    TribbleFeeder The Real Kim Cardassian Premium Member

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    Yeah, I think maybe he just didn’t really know what he was doing and got thrown into being a dad unexpectedly. He had such a confusing upbringing himself, so that probably didn’t help either.
     
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  17. XCV330

    XCV330 Commodore Fleet Captain

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    There's indications that Worf's adoptive parents did everything they could to provide him with the ability to grow understanding on his own how to be Klingon. They may have made mistakes, but he clearly loved them, they loved him, and they must have done some good, because unlike Alexander, Worf wasn't a complete screw-up.

    Arguments for inexperience and his heart-being-in-the-right-place, Worf was all about duty and honor until that duty involved his son. He more or less abandoned him, and when he had to deal with him again, he was embarrassed at his son and just made it worse. Alexander probably would have been better off if he'd never encountered his father. Worf has his good points, but as a parent, he's terrible.
     
  18. grendelsbayne

    grendelsbayne Commodore Commodore

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    Worf wasn't a deadbeat or abusive, and he clearly tried to do the right thing, but no, he wasn't a good father. He just didn't seem to have instinct or the understanding for it.
     
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  19. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No.

    You could argue that between seasons 5 and 7 of TNG he was honestly making his best effort. But when Alexander didn't come along to DS9 that was straight up abandonment.
     
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  20. TheGoodStuff

    TheGoodStuff Captain Captain

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    In some ways it seems to me to be less an issue of Worf's parenting and more an incredibly awkward situation that Alexander is in.

    He is raised on Earth, by humans...who then dump him with a Klingon father (whom he barely knows) on a starship. However, this is a unique Klingon who is trying to ACT as Klingon as possible despite not having grown up on the homeworld and who, himself, was raised by humans. Then you have a caring mother who doesn't respect Klingon culture and tradition who dies...

    The kid really had an awkward upbringing.
     
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