Episode IX Speculation and Discussion

[Turd Ferguson]

Anakin Skywalker also didn't have any special training to use his Force abilities when he was still a slave on Tatooine:

"He can see things before they happen. That's why he appears to have fast reflexes. It's a Jedi trait." -Qui-Gon Jinn

So, I have no difficulty believing Rey is capable of learning things without formal Jedi training. She also seemed pretty adept with her staff, so I also have no problems with her being able to use a lightsaber.

 

[UssGlenn]

Fandom is at an impasse over Rey's skill level. The problem is where to draw the line between "naturally talented" and "needs training to do it". Two people see the same action and one person thinks it's something she can pull off using raw skill and another person thinks it's something that takes some technical training to do at all. It's like, some people have perfect pitch innately but they aren't born with the ability to sing "The Star Spangled Banner", you have to learn the music first.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

The evidence that Rey being a nobody was always the plan is abundant in both TFA itself...

This is simply not true. TFA purposefully trolls the audience throughout the film to expect a connection. Kylo Ren's obsession about her: "WHAT GIRL???", Maz's reaction: "Who's the girl??", Vader's lightsaber "calling" to her, the mystery of who dropped her off on Jakku, etc....

Just because you inferred differently doesn't mean it wasn't there.

 

[DigificWriter]

This is simply not true. TFA purposefully trolls the audience throughout the film to expect a connection. Kylo Ren's obsession about her: "WHAT GIRL???", Maz's reaction: "Who's the girl??", Vader's lightsaber "calling" to her, the mystery of who dropped her off on Jakku, etc....

Nope. In the months after the film's release, people directly involved with the film (from JJ Abrams on down) went out of their way to explicitly and systematically clarify or flat-out dispel fandom misconceptions regarding what TFA set up vis a vis Rey, particularly that "What girl?" and "Who's the girl?" things (which did not mean what you think they meant).

The fact of the matter is this: TFA did not in any way lean on or perpetuate a "legacy character" lineage mystery when it came to Rey, fan perceptions to the contrary notwithstanding. People just refuse(d) to accept that reality.

 

[Nightowl1701]

This is simply not true. TFA purposefully trolls the audience throughout the film to expect a connection. Kylo Ren's obsession about her: "WHAT GIRL???", Maz's reaction: "Who's the girl??", Vader's lightsaber "calling" to her, the mystery of who dropped her off on Jakku, etc....

Just because you inferred differently doesn't mean it wasn't there.

Well, one thing we didn't infer: We see 'Lil Rey being dropped off with Unkar Plutt, teary-eyed and screaming up at a departing ship that's clearly heading spaceward. One or both parents must be onboard, or she wouldn't be hysterical like that.

If Mom and Dad are truly penniless, alcoholic junk traders... what are they doing with a space-capable vessel?
If that was truly the last time Rey ever saw them... how does she know how they died?
Assuming it was Unkar Plutt who told Rey about her parents' death... does she then believe it because it's true, or because Unkar convinced her it was true? She wouldn't be the first to get a misleading 'certain point of view' from a mentor figure...

 

[DigificWriter]

Well, one thing we didn't infer: We see 'Lil Rey being dropped off with Unkar Plutt, teary-eyed and screaming up at a departing ship that's clearly heading spaceward. One or both parents must be onboard, or she wouldn't be hysterical like that.

If Mom and Dad are truly penniless, alcoholic junk traders... what are they doing with a space-capable vessel?
If that was truly the last time Rey ever saw them... how does she know how they died?
Assuming it was Unkar Plutt who told Rey about her parents' death... does she then believe it because it's true, or because Unkar convinced her it was true? She wouldn't be the first to get a misleading 'certain point of view' from a mentor figure...

As with the two things I mentioned, people invloved with the film clarified that scene, specifying that it was not meant to be taken literally.

 

[Nightowl1701]

As with the two things I mentioned, people invloved with the film clarified that scene, specifying that it was not meant to be taken literally.

Ah. Understood.

 

[Tuskin38]

As with the two things I mentioned, people invloved with the film clarified that scene, specifying that it was not meant to be taken literally.

Source?

 

[DigificWriter]

Source?

I know that either Pablo Hidalgo or Matt Martin said that Rey wasn't literally watching her parents fly away from Jakku in that scene, but I can't find a physical source link for the statement now (I tried because I wanted to be sure I wasn't mistaken).

 

[Tuskin38]

If it was Pablo and he said it on twitter, it's long gone.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

Nope. In the months after the film's release, ...

I'm not talking about the months AFTER the film's release, because the overwhelming majority of people who saw it didn't stay glued to cast and crew interviews. The filmmakers clearly know this, so they script for TFA was written the the purpose of building the Rey parentage mystery. Everyone I saw the film with and talked to about it afterward agreed with me.

...particularly that "What girl?" and "Who's the girl?" things (which did not mean what you think they meant).

I think you are interpreting what they said with your own filter, so I respectfully do not take your word as final. It's not like you have the best track record in this regard: remember, you assured us that you had it on good authority, based on your sleuthing, that Spock would never, ever appear on Discovery. So when Ep IX reveals the true secret about Rey and that Kylo Ren was lying to her (or "telling the truth from a certain point of view"), I won't really be shocked.

 

[DigificWriter]

I'm not talking about the months AFTER the film's release, because the overwhelming majority of people who saw it didn't stay glued to cast and crew interviews. The filmmakers clearly know this, so they script for TFA was written the the purpose of building the Rey parentage mystery. Everyone I saw the film with and talked to about it afterward agreed with me.

And yet, as per public statements from people directly involved with the film, many of the impressions people drew from what was presented in TFA were wrong.

I think you are interpreting what they said with your own filter

And you would be unequivocally wrong.

so I respectfully do not take your word as final.

You can believe whatever you want, but nothing you believe will change the facts, which are as I've stated.

Addressing two specific examples of fan speculation that were wrong, Lucasfilm Story Group member Pablo Hidalgo flat-out and specifically used his official Twitter account to debunk fan speculation that 1) the film cutting away from Maz and Han was because he had some hidden info on her (Rey) and/or had any previous connection to her and 2) Kylo knew who Rey was before he encountered and captured her on Takodana.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

Addressing two specific examples of fan speculation that were wrong, Lucasfilm Story Group member Pablo Hidalgo flat-out and specifically used his official Twitter account to debunk fan speculation....

First, I simply cannot believe what you're saying, but I'm sure you can provide evidence for your statements, right?

Second, you consistently miss the bigger point here. Pablo Hidalgo can say whatever about the film, but if JJ or Kathleen or Mickey Mouse decide that Rey's parentage is special and will be revealed in Ep IX, then by golly that's what will happen.

Hidalgo isn't the final authority on all things Star Wars. He's the hired help to keep the "facts" straight, with the understanding that the powers that be can re-write those "facts" on a whim.

 

[DigificWriter]

First, I simply cannot believe what you're saying, but I'm sure you can provide evidence for your statements, right?

I have already done so many times in the past, but it's doubtful that the relevant Twitter posts are currently available.... and in the end, whether you believe me or not is irrelevant because your doubts mean nothing.

Second, you consistently miss the bigger point here. Pablo Hidalgo or JJ Abrams or Rian Johnson or BB-8 can say whatever about the film, but if Kathleen Kennedy and/or Mickey Mouse decide that Rey's parentage is special and will be revealed in Ep IX, then by golly that's what will happen.

Hidalgo isn't the final authority on all things Star Wars. He's the hired help to keep the "facts" straight, with the understanding that the powers that be can re-write those "facts" on a whim.

The Star Wars Story Group IS "the Powers that Be"; Kathleen Kennedy does have the power to "override" them, but she won't do so, so, in this case, Pablo Hidalgo IS the final authority... or one of them.

 

[Ithekro]

The basic problem people have with the current concept of Rey's parentage is the line from Kathleen Kennedy, that the main line of Star Wars, the Episode film, are the Skywalker Saga. That implies that the protagonist is a Skywalker rather than just the antagonist. And it would be hoped that the Skywalker story could continue on after Episode IX, but Kylo Ren is the last line Skywalker, and he's the guy that should likely be killed by the end rather than redeemed. Thus you have the hero, Rey, who has everything going for her to be a Skywalker....except that she's not. Save that the Saga context suggests that she should be a Skywalker to fit the implied nature of the story. Thus the confusion.

 

[DigificWriter]

The basic problem people have with the current concept of Rey's parentage is the line from Kathleen Kennedy, that the main line of Star Wars, the Episode film, are the Skywalker Saga. That implies that the protagonist is a Skywalker rather than just the antagonist.

No, it doesn't.

 

[Ithekro]

No, it doesn't.

How does it not?

 

[fireproof78]

That implies that the protagonist is a Skywalker rather than just the antagonist.

Not sure how it does. Technically, Anakin turns from protagonist to antagonist in ROTS but that film is still very much about the Skywalker saga. So, I don't see why a film saga about Skywalkers must have them as the protagonist.

 

[Ithekro]

Anakin turns into an antagonist to save his wife, but in doing so he more or less fulfills his own dreams anyway, in a Greek tragedy sort of way. In some ways he's still the protagonist (Battle of Heroes) until the final duel (from a certain point of view), when he finally fights the other protagonists. But he's still a protagonist in each of the prequels. Kylo Ren is like Darth Vader and is the antagonist only. Maybe they will pull something in Episode IX, but there is no Skywalker protagonist in the sequel era Skywalker Saga right now. Only two secondary characters (one dead on film, the other dead in real life) and the antagonist, as Skywalkers. The other six films have a Skywalker protagonist in each of them (the OT we found out near the end actually had two Skywalker protagonists).

 

[DigificWriter]

How does it not?

Because a film or story can be about a villain as easily as it can be about a hero... the Prequel Trilogy and the Legends novel Trilogy focused on Darth Bane being just two examples.

there is no Skywalker protagonist in the sequel era Skywalker Saga right now. Only two secondary characters (one dead on film, the other dead in real life) and the antagonist, as Skywalkers. The other six films have a Skywalker protagonist in each of them (the OT we found out near the end actually had two Skywalker protagonists).

Luke and Leia don't count as Sequel Trilogy protagonists because why?