How is/isn't Discovery Star Trek?

[thribs]

Just didn’t feel very Trek like to me.
I do agree the time loop episode was good, but their music selection sucked.
That and the one they rescue Sarek were the two episodes I liked.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

If you think that slavery and the genocide of the Native Americans didn’t happen and that our society isn’t based on sexism, racism, and bigotry I have no interest in dealing with you or your view of history or the world.

As I said before, if you want to discuss this go to TNZ. This is the wrong place.

AP, as someone who generally agrees with you on a lot of things, @XCV330 actually hasn't said any of those things. You're making assumptions and generalisations and implying that he is saying those things but all he's said is that the topic you're both arguing about is more nuanced than what is being presented. That is no where near the same as what you're implying he is saying which is that he is openly supporting racism and genocide. I think that is really uncalled for especially as you're a mod. Naturally, if you make unsupported accusations against someones character, you have to expect them to defend themselves.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Just didn’t feel very Trek like to me.
I do agree the time loop episode was good, but their music selection sucked.
That and the one they rescue Sarek were the two episodes I liked.

Better we got that party with that music than just another sedated gathering of people listening to a quartet.

I always felt Ten Forward should have had music playing all the time. For whatever reason it was too much treated as a place for monks, with the only background noise being the A/C.

 

[thribs]

Remember by the time we get to the 24th century, people have become Dullards. Just look at what they call clothes.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

By the time we get to that Picard show I wonder how many will complain that people in that show are suddenly acting like they have a pulse.

"NOT MY STAR TREK! I WANT PEOPLE TO BEHAVE LIKE THEY ARE ON VALIUM!"

 

[CaptainMurdock]

Remember by the time we get to the 24th century, people have become Dullards. Just look at what they call clothes.

The 24th century is not a place I'd want to live with that fashion sense.
Discovery and the Kelvin movies got non Starfleet civilian wear right.

 

[thribs]

Making them more human like is the one concession I can make for the future shows.
I would love to see someone wearing a Superman shirt around. I swear I see someone wearing one almost every day.

 

[Vger23]

DSC hits all the notes I expect from Star Trek:

1. Outer space mystery and adventure
2. Characters who have chemistry and interesting relationships
3. Special effects, bad guys, scenery chewing and pew pew
4. Good twists and reveals
5. Stories about the human condition and having your principles challenged

 

[thribs]

It shouldn’t be ”pew pew” though. That’s Star Wars.

It should be “peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew... peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew”

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Trek has indulged in "pew pew" plenty prior to 2009. The continuous phaser beam was just more prominent in the past.

I like that when we saw Mudd killing Lorca in that montage we essentially saw all the different kind of phaser beams that TOS did, with all the colors and variations.

 

[thribs]

Trek has indulged in "pew pew" plenty prior to 2009. The continuous phaser beam was just more prominent in the past.

I like that when we saw Mudd killing Lorca in that montage we essentially saw all the different kind of phaser beams that TOS did, with all the colors and variations.

Didn’t like the Disintegration one. Looked too cartoony.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Don't they always?

I mean, it could be a lot funnier if they did this too.

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[thribs]

I know but with today’s tech, they should be able to make it look better.

 

[Hey Missy]

I think it's a mistake to assume that Klingons will react or think like humans. Especially since the main Klingon we've spent the most time with on any show was raised by humans and clearly didn't have the best understanding of them himself. How a group claims they act is often completely different than how they act in reality. Much like how America likes to claim it was based on freedom and liberty, but has been built on slavery and oppressing certain groups to various degrees to the present and with no end in sight.

I’m an American too. The country is built on slavery, the genocide of Native Americans and even today requires an underclass of immigrants for certain labor. This doesn’t begin to cover the racism, sexism and bigotry that is baked into society on every level. I’m not in the mood to debate this.

No, I’d rather not deal with people who want to whitewash history and this is not the place for this kind of discussion. Go to TNZ.

If you think that slavery and the genocide of the Native Americans didn’t happen and that our society isn’t based on sexism, racism, and bigotry I have no interest in dealing with you or your view of history or the world.

As I said before, if you want to discuss this go to TNZ. This is the wrong place.

 

[Wowbagger]

To me, the essence of what makes something ‘Star Trek’ is not to do with optimistic outlook or happy endings – there’s plenty of Trek without both. I also think ‘exploration’ is a vastly overstated part of Trek’s history. I think the ‘essence of Star Trek’ falls into three categories – sometimes seen simultaneously, sometimes not:

1) Star Trek is a Space Opera action adventure show set in space, with mysteries, plenty of good guys and bad guys, weird technology, aliens and more speeches and moralising than you might reasonably expect from the format.

2) Star Trek looks at issues of today or the past through a different lens to make a point about them or ask a question.

3) Star Trek does emotional, heart wrenching episodes about people, that don’t really have a message or a meaning, but are powerful in their own right.

So, do I consider Discovery to be Star Trek?
...
Entirely by the way, I don’t get the nuBSG comparison at all. With the possible exception of being serialised, it goes against nearly everything that nuBSG set out in its Bible that it wanted to be. Discovery has aliens and magic technology, it has ‘better’ humans, it has time travel and parallel universes, evil twins and bumpy foreheads, it isn’t ‘naturalistic’. It is exactly what Ronald D Moore walked away from to make BSG.

I don't have time for a big reply right now, so I just wanted to say that, even though I disagree with a bunch of what you wrote, this was a real good post. Thanks for writing it.

 

[Refuge]

Yet... exploration is a HUGE element to Star *Trek* Hello??

 

[fireproof78]

DSC hits all the notes I expect from Star Trek:

1. Outer space mystery and adventure
2. Characters who have chemistry and interesting relationships
3. Special effects, bad guys, scenery chewing and pew pew
4. Good twists and reveals
5. Stories about the human condition and having your principles challenged

Yup.

Yet... exploration is a HUGE element to Star *Trek* Hello??

The exploration of the human condition is the more important journey.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I did not begin this discussion. And now you've insulted me on top of that, on top of being dead wrong about me. You basically behave like someone hurling an insult at someone out the window of their car, protected and confident in whatever it is they've said or done. I've made no attempt to whitewash anything. You've made a statement that is inaccurate, and insulting, and now you've made another. You're not very good at this, are you?

XCV330, what Possum initially said about US history (and continuing through to today in many respects) was simply a statement of fact as far as I can tell. You may not agree with it, but as she says, she was just making what should have been a fairly non-controversial statement. If you'd like to engage further on the issue you can take it to TNZ like she's suggested.

If you think that slavery and the genocide of the Native Americans didn’t happen and that our society isn’t based on sexism, racism, and bigotry I have no interest in dealing with you or your view of history or the world.

As I said before, if you want to discuss this go to TNZ. This is the wrong place.

Likewise Possum, instead of saying you don't want to discuss the issue, you can just not discuss it after the first couple times. Also, while the difference is subtle, try and avoid making personal accusations and just stick with explaining the historical record.

Thanks.

 

[Lord Garth]

Trek has indulged in "pew pew" plenty prior to 2009. The continuous phaser beam was just more prominent in the past.

I think the "honor" of the most dragged out ship-to-ship and phaser-to-phaser battles to the point where I thought it just became mind-numbing goes to Star Trek: Nemesis... from 2002. If I'm not invested in what's happening, and nothing is resonating with me, then the action becomes really boring, really fast. There were points in the theater where I thought to myself, "Please just make it stop!"

In retrospect, I'm not sure if I was thinking of whatever scene I was watching or the whole film in general. I was in college and went with a bunch of friends. So it would've been weird to just up-and-leave. But none of us was too super-thrilled with the film.

I think JJ Abrams is used as too much of a scapegoat. The movies were already heading in the direction of non-stop action long before he showed up. The only difference is, it suits Chris Pine a lot better than Patrick Stewart.

 

[jaime]

Also a very awesome non-canon book and a very awesome non-canon comic series. But they're non-canon.

I never read those. I basically have The Cage to go on.