How is/isn't Discovery Star Trek?

[jaime]

The answer is no, which is why CBS is hauling in Pike to fill the void left by a weak protagonist.

I don’t know if I agree, but that’s made me laugh.
...
Though I hate Pike in general some reason. Probably because he’s just...so square jawed hero dude. Same reason ENT didn’t click. I get the Wagon Train to the Stars thing, but Good Ole Boys in Space leaves me cold. And I hate Mirror Universe Nazis. Now if they the Enterprise cigarette lighter fixed, maybe it can be the new Trekmobile.

 

[jaime]

But the question wasn't a Yes/No question.

Is/isn’t it?

 

[Tuskin38]

Ignoring the Kelvin Timeline, we know very little about Pike.

He had one real episode, and 2 episodes with very little characterization.

 

[Jinn]

He had one real episode, and 2 episodes with very little characterization.

Also a very awesome non-canon book and a very awesome non-canon comic series. But they're non-canon.

 

[BillJ]

Also a very awesome non-canon book...

I think The Children of Kings was my favorite Pike book.

...and a very awesome non-canon comic series.

Star Trek: Early Voyages left us far too soon.

But they're non-canon.

Yup.

 

[Jinn]

I think The Children of Kings was my favorite Pike book.

I missed that one, for some reason, but at least I still have a Pike book left

Star Trek: Early Voyages left us far too soon.

That cliffhanger still haunts my dreams...

 

[BillJ]

I missed that one, for some reason, but at least I still have a Pike book left

Be warned, it actually takes place outside both the Prime and Abrams timelines. It is kinda its own thing.

 

[Lord Garth]

Ignoring the Kelvin Timeline, we know very little about Pike.

He had one real episode, and 2 episodes with very little characterization.

Beep.

 

[fireproof78]

I broadly agree with your entire post here and I love the Star Trek tenets.

The one thing I didn’t detect (although please correct me if I’m wrong) is that Star Trek is about hope. Hope for humanity. Hope for the future.

Does Michael represent hope in DSC? I mean, outside of that speech she gives at the end that nobody asked her to give?

Does she represent hope for us as a society where we’re isolated from each other by social media, where we’re increasingly less emotionally connected to others thanks to the distance created by email and anonymous posts online, where we’re increasingly expected to portray ourselves in a particular way due to the populist demands of Facebook and the like?

Does Michael’s struggle for acceptance as an outsider - as many of us may face the same struggle in this day and age, particularly now that the struggle is augmented by social media - and absolution represent hope for a generation increasingly dependent on technology that can in some cases lead to a lack of human interaction?

Is Michael Burnham the heart of DSC?

I ask sincerely since I know that might read as glib.

Michael is very much the heart of the series. She is a flawed protagonist in a day and age were people perhaps are not looking for flaws but an assurance that they can overcome those feelings described.

Now, do I think she means that to everyone? No, but I think at her heart is the struggle of isolation and outsider feelings are so pervasive in modern society and impact the mental health of humans beings. But, I also see that on a day to day basis at work and so regard these things far differently that most everyone I know.

 

[Awesome Possum]

If you are going to make a blanket, unchallenged statement about my country, would you mind explaining that in detail?

I’m an American too. The country is built on slavery, the genocide of Native Americans and even today requires an underclass of immigrants for certain labor. This doesn’t begin to cover the racism, sexism and bigotry that is baked into society on every level. I’m not in the mood to debate this.

 

[XCV330]

I’m an American too. The country is built on slavery, the genocide of Native Americans and even today requires an underclass of immigrants for certain labor. This doesn’t begin to cover the racism, sexism and bigotry that is baked into society on every level. I’m not in the mood to debate this.

of course not, you can just repeat it over and over and pretend a far more nuanced and complicated subject is exactly as you see it. but then, you hold the gavel, and might makes right, and after all, you're not going to debate it.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

AP isn’t wrong though. This country has done good, but it doesn’t erase its seedy underbelly.

 

[Awesome Possum]

of course not, you can just repeat it over and over and pretend a far more nuanced and complicated subject is exactly as you see it. but then, you hold the gavel, and might makes right, and after all, you're not going to debate it.

No, I’d rather not deal with people who want to whitewash history and this is not the place for this kind of discussion. Go to TNZ.

 

[XCV330]

No, I’d rather not deal with people who want to whitewash history and this is not the place for this kind of discussion. Go to TNZ.

I did not begin this discussion. And now you've insulted me on top of that, on top of being dead wrong about me. You basically behave like someone hurling an insult at someone out the window of their car, protected and confident in whatever it is they've said or done. I've made no attempt to whitewash anything. You've made a statement that is inaccurate, and insulting, and now you've made another. You're not very good at this, are you?

 

[MakeshiftPython]

I did not begin this discussion. And now you've insulted me on top of that, on top of being dead wrong about me. You basically behave like someone hurling an insult at someone out the window of their car, protected and confident in whatever it is they've said or done. I've made no attempt to whitewash anything. You've made a statement that is inaccurate, and insulting, and now you've made another. You're not very good at this, are you?

It wasn't a beginning of a discussion, it was a statement of fact. Get over it.

 

[Tuskin38]

I think everyone should walk away from this conversation before it gets more heated.

 

[Awesome Possum]

I did not begin this discussion. And now you've insulted me on top of that, on top of being dead wrong about me. You basically behave like someone hurling an insult at someone out the window of their car, protected and confident in whatever it is they've said or done. I've made no attempt to whitewash anything. You've made a statement that is inaccurate, and insulting, and now you've made another. You're not very good at this, are you?

If you think that slavery and the genocide of the Native Americans didn’t happen and that our society isn’t based on sexism, racism, and bigotry I have no interest in dealing with you or your view of history or the world.

As I said before, if you want to discuss this go to TNZ. This is the wrong place.

 

[eschaton]

To me, the essence of what makes something ‘Star Trek’ is not to do with optimistic outlook or happy endings – there’s plenty of Trek without both. I also think ‘exploration’ is a vastly overstated part of Trek’s history. I think the ‘essence of Star Trek’ falls into three categories – sometimes seen simultaneously, sometimes not:

1) Star Trek is a Space Opera action adventure show set in space, with mysteries, plenty of good guys and bad guys, weird technology, aliens and more speeches and moralising than you might reasonably expect from the format.

2) Star Trek looks at issues of today or the past through a different lens to make a point about them or ask a question.

3) Star Trek does emotional, heart wrenching episodes about people, that don’t really have a message or a meaning, but are powerful in their own right.

Bravo for putting what was in my head already together so succinctly.

I might also add that while I agree these are the "three cylinders" of Trek, plenty of non-DIS Trek has failed at points two and three. VOY mostly dropped "message Trek" entirely - though it did do good character pieces. It filled out most of its seasons with bland action-adventure which wasn't really saying much. ENT did a bit better on "message" episodes, but largely forgot how to do an effective character-based episode entirely.

But most notably, movie Trek has seldom hit on all three engines. This became even more true in the Kelvin movies. J.J. Abrams has made points before that he thought the Kirk/Spock interactions were the core of Trek. Nothing could be any further from the truth. They were the glue that held the series together, but there were seldom episodes which actually required their characters to be there over any other Starfleet captain and XO. The core of Trek is the format, not the characters, the uniforms, or the starship designs.

 

[thribs]

Dark, gloomy and full of terrors.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Dark, gloomy and full of terrors.

In what way? It was a fairly upbeat show, one was about them throwing a party with time loop shenanigans that made one of the best episodes of the season.