• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Poll Do you consider Discovery to truly be in the Prime Timeline at this point?

Is it?

  • Yes, that's the official word and it still fits

    Votes: 194 44.7%
  • Yes, but it's borderline at this point

    Votes: 44 10.1%
  • No, there's just too many inconsistencies

    Votes: 147 33.9%
  • I don't care about continuity, just the show's quality

    Votes: 49 11.3%

  • Total voters
    434
Just having a bit of fun. You can consider it part of Lost in Space for all I care. :p
I forgot the smiley face. I was tossing it right back to you ;)
To you.

Plus TOS still set up a lot of events happening around STD's time.

The 2270s after TMP, before TWOK, is a blank canvas.
Yes, to me. I believe I articulated that point, hence the "I don't put..." in that sentence rather than categorically stating "THE CAGE ISN'T TOS!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I trust I have made myself clear now. Sorry for any confusion :)
 
"The Cage" is kind of weird for me as I really don't like it, but bizzarly Pike is my favorite Enterprise captain.
 
"The Cage" is kind of weird for me as I really don't like it, but bizzarly Pike is my favorite Enterprise captain.

Pierce Brosnan is my favorite Bond but, except for Goldeneye, his Bond movies aren't exactly in my Top Favorites. So the same idea.
 
Uh, shit I don't have a good response... Eh, you're wrong yourself! Ha! :p

When in doubt just go for a gif. Like this one:

3Uuf5zN.gif


(This is also for the currently 33% not prime people here :p)
 
When in doubt just go for a gif. Like this one:

3Uuf5zN.gif


(This is also for the currently 33% not prime people here :p)
I'm clearly lacking a proper gif stock, so I'm just saving everything you people post :D
 
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if they set Discovery in 2275 (perhaps after TMP), fans would have been far more accepting of it aesthetically.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

You could do a modern TV series with the TMP aesthetics but improve the 70s uniforms. Perhaps even keep the Disco ones.

It's also a time period in Trek history we don't know much about, Wrath of Khan is still 10 years away. You could do so much without screwing up continuity.

Kirk, Spock and friends are all still out there, but the show doesn't have to worry about being a prequel to TOS now, and the Ralph Mcquarrie designs are tailor-made for this time period.

Less people would be hung up on the visual design for sure.

The only serious change I'd make, if it were a 2270s show, would be that Discovery not run into the Enterprise at the end of the season. Having Admiral Kirk take command in S2 would be a step too far for me.

Pike is okay, because he was barely ever used. Having Kirk be the Captain in Discovery for a season would be like having Picard be the Captain of DS9 for a season.
 
"The Cage" is kind of weird for me as I really don't like it, but bizzarly Pike is my favorite Enterprise captain.

"The Cage" is an interesting one. I love it. But it's really not that great an episode from a female perspective.
But for me, as a kid, it (in the form of "The Menagerie") was the ultimate sci-fi/Star Trek episode. It had everything: Weird aliens with strange powers, illusions, monsters (as brought to live by said illusions), aliens keeping humans in Zoos, even the first (and I think only?) look at future Earth in TOS. I LOVED it as a child. And still do.
(Also as a bonus, "The Menagerie" is probably the defining episode of the Kirk/Spock-friendship which I love so much, the look at a human colony makes me dream of humans living beyond the stars, and Pike in this futuristic wheelchair still haunts me)
It made me think like only good science fiction can: Both in how humans were treated by the aliens, the kind of reverse on how humans treat living beings they deem "lesser" than themselves. How they were purely seen as intelligent breeding machines. Of humans travelling among the stars in a universe filled with the weirdest and strangest things. And also the theme of Illusion and fake realities (which is a BIG one in TOS!) was first introduced: I loved how Pike managed to deal with it. How if you can't trust your eyes and senses, he still can operate in this world. And oh my, that Orion dance! It was all a little boy could wish from science fiction and then some.
It just occured to me years later, as an adult, when a female friend who was also into Star Trek couldn't get anything out of that episode. As a child I found the scenes with the women pining for Pike (heh!) awkwardly uncomfortable, but not a deal breaker for me. There was just so much else that captivated me. It was only later that I realized: It's not just the people in that episode that were treating women more like breading stock than actual human beings. Which is a weird thing in an episode that at the same time convicingly argues for humanism.
 
Last edited:
Love "The Cage." One of my favorite Trek episodes.

Doomcock is backing off his "Star Trek is dead" video today.
 
I absolutely love "The Cage" but I would think that only the segments of it that went on to be incorporated into "The Menagerie" (TOS) two-parter are strictly canon...and even those we have to remember were all an illusion within an illusion (some even an illusion within an illusion within an illusion). They were represented to us as accurate, of course, but I think at the end of the day that's rather a bit more nebulous than the initial dialogue to this effect might suggest, given the ultimate reveal that far more was being misrepresented to us than we realized...

Anyway, the original unbroadcasted artifact remains one of my favorite pieces of Star Trek ever, despite some of Pike's retrograde attitudes. He's obviously meant as a flawed character, and I don't mind that just in and of itself, but stuff like the "I can't get used to a woman on the bridge" bit just plays as extremely dated and unflattering, and I think they must have realized it even back then, because they cut it all out of "The Menagerie" along with some other bits. (Of course, there are at least a few equally cringeworthy moments to be found elsewhere in TOS, and even in TNG and beyond, for that matter.)

The trim I most miss from the two-parter, just because I find it hilarious, is when the geologist suggests to Spock's dismay that they might be beaming down into an illusory cavern—a possibility he clearly had not thereto considered himself—and then Spock saunters a mere few feet into the transporter room and presents that poor guy's insight to Number One as if he'd just come up with it on his own!:rommie:

As to this thread's main topic, since it keeps coming back, here's some thoughts I've posted elsewhere but not here:

My understanding is that "Prime" means the main, ongoing, current "home base" continuity, that which isn't considered to be an alternate timeline or parallel reality like the Mirror Universe or Kelvin Timeline. It doesn't mean no changes, no updates, no retcons, no redesigns, no recastings, no reevaluations of authorial intent, no errors, no contradictions...and it doesn't mean that any of those things are required to be explained, though they can and may be, whether explicitly or implicitly, within the narrative or behind the scenes.

Note that something can be canonical but not Prime (again, see MU and KT), or Prime but not canonical (see many comics, novels, games, etc.), and can even go from being considered either or both to being considered neither and then back again (see TAS). If a future canonical production decides to regard itself as Prime and DSC as a parallel universe or fever dream, then that is how it shall be...until the next fellow comes along, at which point it may all be reshuffled again.

But I don't believe there is any wholesale, whole cloth "reboot" going on here with respect to continuity, visual or otherwise, such as it be. As has been the case from the first pilot onward, they simply consider themselves free to add, remove, tweak, refine, or otherwise alter whatever elements they so desire as they go along, on a rolling basis, which is more or less inevitable in any fictional continuity that runs long enough and changes custodianship enough times. In this, they may give consideration to the intent of previous custodians, but they won't consider themselves inviolably bound by it except where they want and choose to be, and even less so (i.e., not at all) by the assumptions and expectations of fandom. And why should they? None of this is qualitatively different from how serial fiction has always worked.

This show is an in-continuity prequel to TOS and what followed, both informed by and informing what is depicted therein. One can certainly say it functions as a sort of "reboot" in the sense that it provides a relaunch of and reintroduction to the Prime continuity following the still-ongoing-in-parallel diversion of the Kelvin films. It is a kind of restart, a new beginning and jumping-on/off point, with a new vision and interpretation of things. But no more so than TMP or TNG or ENT or the framing story of ST'09 in turn were. Not in principle, and not in practice.

-MMoM:D
 
As a TOSVerse prequel to TOS, it's an irredeemable failure.

As a TNGVerse precursor to a new version of Kirk and Spock's era that's a real prequel to TNG, it works about as well as Enterprise did.
 
As a TOSVerse prequel to TOS, it's an irredeemable failure.

As a TNGVerse precursor to a new version of Kirk and Spock's era that's a real prequel to TNG, it works about as well as Enterprise did.
"Irredeemable failure" is a bit extreme (not a comment on the quality of the show itself--there's enough of that going on all around, in all directions). I'd (mostly) agree if DSC was the only other Trek series ever made. However, I think it can be broadly reconciled if all official on-screen Trek is taken into account (caveat: I don't care about "canon deviations" as anything other than something to occasionally ponder--has zero effect on whether I enjoy any Trek series or not).

I look at it this way. TOS to TOS movies to TNG works reasonably well, up to TNG:FC movie. Then, trip to 21st century messes things up a bit (Cochrane learning of future, Borg bits left lying around to be found), leading to ENT, which leads to Kelvin, which leads to a fork--one branch to Abrams movies, other branch to DSC. DSC leads to "new" TOS, after which...who knows?
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top