Disney fires James Gunn from "Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3"

[Spot261]

I understand. It's just sometimes other agenda and point scoring muddies the water. He is certainly not nearly as heinous as others but in age of accountability of what is said in social media consistency can be compromised.

Not just "siding with their own" but possibly believing rape and pedophile is not so big a deal, that its completely off-limits as the source of "humor". The level of defense appear to go beyond free speech matters.

Horrifyingly I find myself having to agree, on partially commercial grounds rather than purely moral ones. Disney have a brand to protect, a brand which focuses almost entirely on their image as a company who entertain, educate and are often physically responsible for the well being of children. This is too high profile and too potentially damaging to that image for them to risk billions on sticking up for someone who should have known better at the time rather than simply being remorseful after the fact.

 

[DonIago]

Again, it says much about Gunn that he believed there was humor in rape and pedophilia.

To me, all it says is that he has a sense of humor that includes topics you personally find distasteful.

I'm gay and Jewish, and I've heard jokes targeting both, some of which I considered pretty distasteful. I didn't typically conclude that the person making them was homophobic or anti-semitic though. Heck, in some cases I even found the jokes somewhat amusing myself.

If you made gay or Jewish jokes, I wouldn't assume that you were homophobic or anti-semitic. I certainly wouldn't accuse you of being inhuman. Or were you just being hyperbolic? Or perhaps you were trying to be humorous?

There's also an entire realm of "dead baby" jokes, the majority of which are almost certainly intended to be as distasteful as possible.

Humor is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[DonIago]

Horrifyingly I find myself having to agree, on partially commercial grounds rather than purely moral ones. Disney have a brand to protect, a brand which focuses almost entirely on their image as a company who entertain, educate and are often physically responsible for the well being of children. This is too high profile and too potentially damaging to that image for them to risk billions on sticking up for someone who should have known better at the time rather than simply being remorseful after the fact.

But how many people would even have known Gunn made those jokes (or "jokes" if one prefers) way back when if Disney hadn't called attention to them by firing Gunn to begin with?

 

[Spot261]

But how many people would even have known Gunn made those jokes (or "jokes" if one prefers) way back when if Disney hadn't called attention to them by firing Gunn to begin with?

It wasn't Disney firing him which drew the attention, they had been dredged up and shared across various social media platforms, which either brought them to Disney's attention or forced their hand depending which interpretation you subscribe to. In either case Disney did not initiate this, they reacted to events out of their control.

Those actions (dredging up the tweets) were clearly politically motivated but the responses have been necessary.

 

[Terok Nor]

I agree there's a double standard at work here. Whilst I don't think Gunn should have been fired in the first place his Hollywood supporters appear to be giving the impression "Do as we say, not as we do". It wouldn't be the first time this attitude has reared its hypocritical head. It just proves how disingenuous Hollywood is. Not that it needed proving.

I personally find it absurd that these people are distinguishing between what's acceptably (and forgivably) offensive and what isn't. Paedophilia jokes are forgivable but racist jokes aren't? Hmmmm.

I can forgive words but I certainly don't consider the act of paedophilia something I can make peace with. Meryl Streep's standing ovation for Roman Polanski will always define Hollywood double standards to me. These people genuinely think they're on a higher plane to us mere peasants. They know better, don't ya know.

I've lost so much respect for so many actors and actresses due to this attitude and the fact they're all so blind to how it comes across says it all.

Gunn perhaps shouldn't have been hired by Disney in the first place but he was. It's ridiculous to fire him all these years later over these tweets when they were available to Disney before they hired him. Although I can see the difference between this and the Roseanne situation (he's reformed, she apparently hasn't) it's still another controversial person being hired in full knowledge of their past behaviour and tweets. The faux outrage from Disney, as always, fails to convince me. They knew all along. Gunn and Barr got fired because their offensiveness became a CURRENT problem for their employers. It's a face saving exercise wrapped up in faux self righteous indignation. And the actors are too stupid or deluded to realise they're just as hypocritical for entirely different reasons.

Either you forgive all words or you forgive none. I forgive Gunn and I would have forgiven Barr had she stopped at her initial apology. It's gone too far for her now as she's clearly not sorry since she continues to harp on about Jarret and has called her a bitch post apology. Gunn has stopped posting his offensive jokes and if people repent they deserve a second chance regardless of whether their humor has been placed on a different level of offensive by actors who clearly haven't got a clue about right and wrong or indeed impartiality.

 

[urbandefault]

Disney protects The Mouse at all costs. The End.

Maybe others in entertainment will start to actually think before they post/tweet/speak and keep their idiot side hidden from the public. You know, like in the golden era of Hollywood, when they couldn't open their yaps without a studio suit telling them what to say. Ah, the good old days.

 

[Mudd]

Disney protects The Mouse at all costs. The End.

They service their stockholders at all costs.

The End.

 

[BillJ]

It just proves how disingenuous Hollywood is.

Just a reflection of American society.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Horrifyingly I find myself having to agree, on partially commercial grounds rather than purely moral ones. Disney have a brand to protect, a brand which focuses almost entirely on their image as a company who entertain, educate and are often physically responsible for the well being of children. This is too high profile and too potentially damaging to that image for them to risk billions on sticking up for someone who should have known better at the time rather than simply being remorseful after the fact.

Ah. You have come to at least part of your senses.

To me, all it says is that he has a sense of humor that includes topics you personally find distasteful.

I'm gay and Jewish, and I've heard jokes targeting both, some of which I considered pretty distasteful. I didn't typically conclude that the person making them was homophobic or anti-semitic though. Heck, in some cases I even found the jokes somewhat amusing myself.
If you made gay or Jewish jokes, I wouldn't assume that you were homophobic or anti-semitic. I certainly wouldn't accuse you of being inhuman. Or were you just being hyperbolic? Or perhaps you were trying to be humorous?

That's the thing: what would make me believe it was fine for me to make gay or Jewish jokes to you or anyone who is either--considering the mistreatment both have suffered? I'm half white and black, and when I've been in the presence of some dolt making race jokes, it was not funny, "dark humor" nor was it "edgy." Its simply someone not giving a damn about the terrifying history--and still running--of the abuse black people have had to endure (barely) that was not limited to enslavement, lynching and Jim Crow. Its also centuries of cultural and an ever-developing media mainstreamed to reduce black people to little more than a shuffling / illiterate / criminal / animal class, etc. That none of those forms of dehumanizing mischaracterization (including "humor") have failed to be considered absolutely poisonous to human relations hammers the fact that there is a neverending part of the culture that is fine with it--an indicator that those making the "jokes" feel there's something to be accepted about the source of their so-called humor.

To this point, Gunn's rape and pedophile "jokes" must be seen as an individual--a functioning adult--already knowing what permanent damage and death has been caused by both acts, but not caring by taking his beliefs to the public stage, because to Gunn, he dismissed the horrific gravity of both abuses/crimes.

There's also an entire realm of "dead baby" jokes, the majority of which are almost certainly intended to be as distasteful as possible.

Humor is in the eye of the beholder.

Would you--if you were the one making the "jokes" instead of Gunn--feel comfortable saying that to a victim of rape or pedophilia?

 

[urbandefault]

They service their stockholders at all costs.

The End.

 

[Mudd]

Really?

You didn't seem to get the distinction.

 

[Spot261]

Ah. You have come to at least part of your senses.

? There was no "coming to", my position hasn't changed....

 

[Turtletrekker]

Rumor now has it that Gunn may be reinstated.

Sources say there has been a growing feeling that Gunn could be reinstated, especially because Marvel and Disney have been unusually radio-silent on who could replace him since the firing. Production is slated to start at the top of 2019, and following Gunn’s removal from the film, it was thought that Marvel and Disney would need to move quickly to replace him, since the replacement would likely have to do some work on the script.

 

[Spot261]

If he is the film will almost certainly be stronger for it

 

[DonIago]

Would you--if you were the one making the "jokes" instead of Gunn--feel comfortable saying that to a victim of rape or pedophilia?

DISCLAIMER: I haven't seen the specific jokes in question, so my response will be extrapolating from, say, the kinds of jokes Family Guy has made or might make about such things.

I wouldn't intentionally make such jokes directly to victims I didn't know. I might make such jokes on social media, as if you're following me you should damn well know what you're getting into; I make no pretensions of being an upstanding citizen at all times on social media, nor do I assume such from anyone else. I might make such jokes to victims I knew well enough to suspect beyond a reasonable doubt that they themselves would be okay with the jokes. Perhaps such victims don't exist, but I doubt anyone's conducted a survey on the matter.

Of course, nobody's reading my social media expecting it to in any way represent me in any sort of professional capacity either. (shrug)

No great surprise, I would hope, that when my friends who know me make gay/Jewish jokes I'm more inclined to assume good faith than when they come from people I have little to no prior knowledge of.

Hell, just last night I had to tell friend A that acquaintance B had told me that at one point A, probably while drunk, had made a transphobic remark that hurt B's feelings significantly. This struck me as being highly atypical of A's conduct, and so I told A that I'd heard about it. Not to chide him for his conduct, but because I knew him to be a compassionate person who likely didn't mean to hurt anyone, and felt if he was hurting people then he would want to know about it.

 

[EnderAKH]

NSFW
George Carlin: Rape can be funny

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[Spot261]

DISCLAIMER: I haven't seen the specific jokes in question, so my response will be extrapolating from, say, the kinds of jokes Family Guy has made or might make about such things.

I wouldn't intentionally make such jokes directly to victims I didn't know. I might make such jokes on social media, as if you're following me you should damn well know what you're getting into; I make no pretensions of being an upstanding citizen at all times on social media, nor do I assume such from anyone else. I might make such jokes to victims I knew well enough to suspect beyond a reasonable doubt that they themselves would be okay with the jokes. Perhaps such victims don't exist, but I doubt anyone's conducted a survey on the matter.

Of course, nobody's reading my social media expecting it to in any way represent me in any sort of professional capacity either. (shrug)

No great surprise, I would hope, that when my friends who know me make gay/Jewish jokes I'm more inclined to assume good faith than when they come from people I have little to no prior knowledge of.

Hell, just last night I had to tell friend A that acquaintance B had told me that at one point A, probably while drunk, had made a transphobic remark that hurt B's feelings significantly. This struck me as being highly atypical of A's conduct, and so I told A that I'd heard about it. Not to chide him for his conduct, but because I knew him to be a compassionate person who likely didn't mean to hurt anyone, and felt if he was hurting people then he would want to know about it.

In fairness it might be worth looking them up and considering how they would read to a victim. They went a long way past the point that Family Guy might tail off and in some cases could be taken for literal (not to mention graphic) endorsements of child abuse.

I'm not saying they were such an endorsement, but having dealt with many such victims down the years it's clear how they could very easily be damaging to those victims who would inevitably have been exposed.

Of course that raises the question of how much extra damage might now have accrued as a consequence of their having been dredged up in such a manner but that in itself gives the lie to any pretense this was anything other than politically motivated. They're been brought up in order to attack him, not out of any effort to protect victims or mitigate their impact.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Rumor now has it that Gunn may be reinstated.

Why not? There's a marketing angle to rehiring Gunn -- "Guardians 3, the movie the trolls didn't want you to see!" And, by the time the film came out, the firing-rehiring wouldn't even be a story anymore.

 

[Professor Zoom]

I agree there's a double standard at work here. Whilst I don't think Gunn should have been fired in the first place his Hollywood supporters appear to be giving the impression "Do as we say, not as we do". It wouldn't be the first time this attitude has reared its hypocritical head. It just proves how disingenuous Hollywood is. Not that it needed proving.

I personally find it absurd that these people are distinguishing between what's acceptably (and forgivably) offensive and what isn't. Paedophilia jokes are forgivable but racist jokes aren't? Hmmmm.

I can forgive words but I certainly don't consider the act of paedophilia something I can make peace with. Meryl Streep's standing ovation for Roman Polanski will always define Hollywood double standards to me. These people genuinely think they're on a higher plane to us mere peasants. They know better, don't ya know.

I've lost so much respect for so many actors and actresses due to this attitude and the fact they're all so blind to how it comes across says it all.

Gunn perhaps shouldn't have been hired by Disney in the first place but he was. It's ridiculous to fire him all these years later over these tweets when they were available to Disney before they hired him. Although I can see the difference between this and the Roseanne situation (he's reformed, she apparently hasn't) it's still another controversial person being hired in full knowledge of their past behaviour and tweets. The faux outrage from Disney, as always, fails to convince me. They knew all along. Gunn and Barr got fired because their offensiveness became a CURRENT problem for their employers. It's a face saving exercise wrapped up in faux self righteous indignation. And the actors are too stupid or deluded to realise they're just as hypocritical for entirely different reasons.

Either you forgive all words or you forgive none. I forgive Gunn and I would have forgiven Barr had she stopped at her initial apology. It's gone too far for her now as she's clearly not sorry since she continues to harp on about Jarret and has called her a bitch post apology. Gunn has stopped posting his offensive jokes and if people repent they deserve a second chance regardless of whether their humor has been placed on a different level of offensive by actors who clearly haven't got a clue about right and wrong or indeed impartiality.

Hollywood is hardly the only group guilty of hypocrisy and double standards. Politicians and religious leaders are guilty of the same. Hell, most people are guilty of the same.

 

[JD]

I can forgive words but I certainly don't consider the act of paedophilia something I can make peace with. Meryl Streep's standing ovation for Roman Polanski will always define Hollywood double standards to me. These people genuinely think they're on a higher plane to us mere peasants. They know better, don't ya know.

Just to give people an idea of where I draw my line, ever since I found out what Roman Polanski did I haven't knowingly watched anything he directed, even for free. Even if no money went to him, just watching something he made just feels to close to supporting him. I honestly was really shocked when I realized he was still making movies, and could actually find people willing to work with him.